Let's Brainstorm Gore Summer Money Making Ideas

Harv's post about the Jay Peak water park sparked my idea for this thread. Many of us have commented about Gore's lackluster (pathetically lame and unmotivated) attempts at summer operations. In past years Gore offered lift served mountain biking and BBQ that was advertised even less than the winter operation and, therefore, failed. Mike will tell us these operations lost $$ and interfered with off season maintenance. In fact, they were poorly attended.
Now that the Ski Bowl is partially open some of the time, how about some summer offerings in that venue? Lake Placid is getting a zip line. We could use a zip line. How about an alpine slide similar to what Bromley offers. These activities would be family friendly and, very importantly, visible from Rte 28. I can think of only two obstacles; 1) $$ to invest and 2) in theory Ski Bowl Village may one day operate a links style golf course that criss crosses the ski trails. perhaps they could work around the golf operation or just get Front Street to back off the plan.
More ideas?

Here's a small idea...how about an outdoor rock climbing wall. ORDA wouldn't have to buy it...they could get someone in the business to install and operate it...then take a cut. Not alot of money, but it might get more people on site who might want food and drink, take a gondi ride..etc. maybe they could tie in with ADK Extreme

How about a "cut your own glade" program?  

Ummm . . . I think mountain biking in the Ski Bowl area might be a better place to start.  I think starting with flatter xc-type trails with some flowy dh trail options would be better than straight up dh from the Gondola.  Riding the Gondola is really intimidating for a lot of people (especially when they see other riders with full face helmets, full body armor, and huge bikes hanging around).  I was a little bit intimidated this past weekend at Whiteface.

Speaking of Whiteface, I think the Flume trails and the Hardy road trails will probably end up getting a lot more traffic than the dh trails.  I was up there on Saturday, and there weren't that many people riding the dh trails (just about the same number as when I rode on Oktoberfest weekend last year), but when we drove by the Flume, every parking lot area and roadside pull off was packed.  It might be because a lot of the following day's race was on the Flume/Hardy road trails.  But a lot of it was on the freaking mountain (as in, climbing all the way to the base of the Summit lift and then riding down).

Is there a dh mountain biking operation in the east that turns a profit?  Does Plattekill?  I think the intimidation factor is what puts people off . . .

Someone metioned Bromley:  with the Alpine Slide, Zip Line, EuroBungy and other activities it is a real summer hotspot in Southern Vt.  It also helps that it is right off a main highway and easily accessible to lots of Vermont visitors.

Check out Snowshoe's website down my way, for how a more out-of-the-way resort manages a pretty big summer operation.  Mountain Biking is big, as is canoeing and even swimming in their snowmaking lake.  Plus, they have concerts, a Chili Cookoff weekend, a Blues Festival weekend, real events to get you to want to come for two nights.

I believe Holiday Valley and Seven Springs also do the "summer weekend getaway" thing real well. The key is package deals, with hotel or condo rooms, and lots of events rolled into one price.  

Just gondola rides don't cut it for a summer destination.

One last thing:  I don't believe anyone is building Alpine Slides anymore.  Too much risk and too much liability, as the driver controls the sled. The new thing is mountain coasters.

"How about a "cut your own glade" program? "..........about 30 years late on that one. Someone beat you to it!

I don't really know much about summer operations, but it seems to me that in order to make a profit, you'd have to turn Gore into an actual summer destination.  As in, a place that people come to because it's got (x).  I don't think you could make money hoping that people will stop by every once in a while to take a scenic Gondola Ride.  What does the North Creek area have going for it in the summer?  There's rafting, is there anything else?  What do people want to do in the Summer?  Water Parks?  Mountain Biking? Paintball? Zipline? Obstacle Course? Renaissance Fair?

I'm just trying to think of things where I've actually said to myself "I want to do that, and I'm willing to drive a couple of hours to do it".  Until a resort can figure out something like that, I don't know if they'll ever see any real summer money.

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full blown water park a la Camelback

The Adirondacks, North Creek in particular, host many more tourists during the months of July and August than any of the winter months. So the draw is already here and, unlike skiers, the summer visitors tend to stay in the area for multiple nights. Visible, well marketed, activities will draw.

let the mountain rest in quiet for the summer.

John Warren's take:

http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2011/06/john-warren-how-gore-mountain-abandoned.html

Harvey44 wrote

John Warren's take:

http://www.adirondackalmanack.com/2011/06/john-warren-how-gore-mountain-abandoned.html

Interesting article....this could have been a thread on its own

I read the article Harv linked and I gotta agree with the author and ADKskier. Gore does little to capitalize on these ideas. Very merger effort by Pratt/ORDA. Perhaps that's how they want it. Pratt's much better at spreading the blah blah blahs than he is at promoting things. NC doesn't seem to generate much effort either.

None of them is of the caliber of Downhill Mike. He's a one man force. They could learn much from his enthusiasm which they sorely lack.

NC/Pratt could find an ally in the Gear Source. It's owner has spunk, which is what is needed to make things happen. A soggy toast approach does nothing.

It's funny to see people in the article's comments whine about supposed eco damage by mtn bikes. One hike up Cascade reveals big erosion on the hiking trails.

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I'm going to take the other side and say that the article was unnecessarily harsh.  I guess the question is, should it be Gore Mountain's responsibility to prop up the town? They do a pretty good job in the winter (we all have our minor quibbles, but as a whole, it's pretty good), and there aren't a lot of mountains that do a great summertime business.  What does West Mountain do during the summer (besides that warrior dash)?  What does Mad River Glen do during the summer? What about Saddleback, Maine?  What does Cannon do?  Do they make any money? I still don't know if Whiteface makes a profit off of the DH mountain biking operation.

How many people would this stuff draw?  Whiteface/Lake Placid has a lot going for it: Tons of Hiking trails, Ironman (tons of athletes up there before the event training), rugby, horse shows, mountain biking, High Falls Gorge, events, wineries, brewery, etc., etc., etc.  They draw a lot of people because they can draw from all of those different sources. Even if Gore has some kind of destination activity, then they have two things: rafting and whatever that activity is.  That's about it.  Sure, they have hiking, but say what you want about the Siamese Wilderness, it's pretty cool, but it ain't no High Peaks.

I think we have to face facts that North Creek is never going to be Lake Placid (and I don't think it has anything to do with the movie Cars).  And an overly angry article on a website isn't going to change that.

The title of the article seems designed to encourage controversy.  I don't think it's fair to say that Gore (and by implication ORDA) has abandoned North Creek. I can't think of another business or government project that has brought more to North Creek in the last 20 years.  IMO without Gore, North Creek would be a smaller town.

With regard to the "wave" of business closings in town - I think that might have had something to do with the worldwide economic meltdown. It was not exclusively a North Creek phenomenon.  The company I work for is 25% smaller too.

I'm no expert on what KIND of MTB terrain appeals to MOST people but I'm betting that super steeps/gnarl aren't it.   Let's face it Plattekill has world class pro MTB terrain and events, and it's a break even proposition in a good year.  If state-run MTB at Gore doesn't break-even, what do you cut from winter ops to cover those loses? Why was Gore's MTB program killed? If it was cash positive, would they have killed it?

If the bypass really is the reason Gore doesn't bring more business to North Creek, then another Gore based attraction added in the summer could still have the same difficulty bringing business downtown.  An attraction based in the Ski Bowl  - zipline, mtb, waterslide, whatever would make more sense IMO. UHRT could also provide a boost to town.

I think it will be interesting to see what happens with Gear Source running MTB at Garnet Hill this summer.  There's a variety of terrain, including some more gentle riding (4H, Old Faithful, Trapper Trail). Plus they can do a bus pickup which acts like a lift.  Be so cool if TGS could run a MTB at Ski Bowl which is TOJ land. Love to see a private enterprise solution.

Harvey Road will offer a free Gear Source bike tune ($30 value) to the first Forum member who posts a Garnet Hill TR in our Summer Sports Forum. Get out there!

mattchuck2 wrote

 I guess the question is, should it be Gore Mountain's responsibility to prop up the town?

Excellent question. " Responsiblity " is a bit strong. It should also be noted that any summer activity Gore could succeed at would put money in Gore's coffers.

mattchuck2 wrote

 What does West Mountain do during the summer (besides that warrior dash)?

Well, to answer your question West had a free concert last weekend. They have guided ATV riding. Beach volleyball w/a league. They're opening a zipline very soon. Outdoor BBQ Sat and Sun( not open in lodge). Book wedding, reunions, graduations, etc. MS bike ride 7-16-11, They do quite a bit of stuff and are being very proactive aka making a sincere effort, not just phoning it in.

The Warrior run drew something like 1,700 competitors, some @ $50 a pop, That's pretty good cha-ching. People I spoke to had a blast! Which reminds me,,,where's ADKJEFF?!?! Is he still stuck out on the Warrior trail? Did the ghost of Magua lift his scalp? Did he catch on fire leaping through one of the fire hoops? Is he now signing soprano after straddling a log? Stuck in the mud? WHAT !?!? APB on ADK.

Friends of ours ran the Warrior. The guy has a shaved head and he painted it all red for the Warrior Run. When he got to the mud pit, he ran screaming loudly and then dove into the mud. Hehehe.

IDK, I hear what MC2 and Harv foetee foe are saying, BUT! it still remains a fact that other ski areas are doing quite well in the summer, helping both their Mtn and their community financially. Miriad are the examples of what you can do, but you gotta make a sincere effort. Not many describe Gore as that way when it comes to marketing and promotion.

mattchuck2 wrote

 And an overly angry article on a website isn't going to change that.

Neither will this.....

70s Gore Kid wrote

 Tow Mater and everyone else just sits by the blinking traffic light waiting for customers, who all disappeared the day the interstate opened.

That is what myself,a whole lot of others and I might add an area Media leader see as NC's and to some extent Gore's main weakness.

Example:

I had been going to Gore 35-40+ times per year for 7 years and I never even knew about those newer businesses downtown North Creek UNTIL I joined SkiADK and you guys were talking about them. I live in Queensbury. Why didn't I know they were there? Because they made no effort to inform me or the tens of thousands of others who pass by very close to their businesses every year, winter and summer.

To me, that's absolutely pathetic . I recall us talking about this intensely on SkiADK once and I was faulting them for their lame effort, saying they could at least put up some friggin signs, even ala Beaverbrook's sign@Dillon Hill tavern parking lot, I discussed it with an area media person and then Lo and behold, a pick-up truck w/sign in back appeared near Cunningham's that spring - FINALLY!!! advertising a downtown business. It didn't last long and I don't know what's up there now for signage but these NC businesses bemoaning their plight and how they desperately need help gets old WHEN THEY DO SO LITTLE to help themselves.

Here's a clue for them....drive down any road in America and you know what you'll see? It starts and ends with an "S". Do you know why they're there? Because it's a necessary part of business. Ever see Joe the roofer, a pizza shop or other businesses have their vehicles all decked out with advertising? Don't know if I've ever seen any/many NC businesses do that, except for the big hotels. Paint up a van and park it at Gore everyday - front dead center, hand out menus/flyers from it, have coupons, specials or two-fers for that day, , let people know you're there and get them in the door. There's many things they could do but don't.

In all honesty, I can tell you NC downtown businesses have gained a rep around here as a "poor me" who doesn't even do enough to help themselves. Sorry, just telling ya what I hear.

Jeff Palka @ The Gear Source seems to be a shining exception. That guy definitely seems proactive, go get 'em, can do.

The number one necessity in business is you absolutely HAVE to make people aware that you are there. If you don't, you lose. Turn off the lights. Lock the door.

I was in North Creek this weekend. Those 6 vacant buildings really stand out and give the place a ghost town feel.  We had an excellent dinner at Bar Vino and Sarah's was wonderful as usual, but the boom that was heralded two years ago feels like it has evaporated.  We went to the movies up in Indian Lake Saturday night.  Coming and going I do not think we passed two cars in either direction.

Gore could do concerts and weddings.  I have been to weddings at other ski areas in the summer and they work really well.  Just think of the kitchen and all that indoor seating.  Seem like that is an asset.  Heck, have field days, special dinners, dinner theaters, beer tastings.  I guess the balance is bringing in business, but NOT stealing business from the village.

It is interesting to see all of the work that Sugarbush is doing to get summer traffic.  They are the only ski area that still sends out regular emails about the mountain (Jay is close).  

a comment from the article 70s Gore Kid linked....

irishgirl said on: June 17, 2011, 9:49 am
I drove through North Creek on Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. I live in a nearby town but typically do not drive through North Creek. It was very sad. The weekend was hustling and bustling every where else but North Creek was DEAD. I went into one of the shops referenced in the article and no wonder the owner is scared. The prices were through the roof. You cannot rely on tourists and tourists alone in the Adirondacks. You have to somewhat rely on local patronage as well. I'm sure there are some locals that can afford to shop there but my guess is the majority cannot. Yes the products were beautiful and not what you would see just anywhere but come on..... We had lunch in town and were commenting on how cute and quaint a town it is but also how dead it is. Very sad North Creek. You really need to figure it out. Not too far down the road there were thousands of people who don't even know you exist. The Copperfield is another big flop.....just struggling to survive.


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