NY State Land: Rules vs Traditional Uses

MikeK wrote

 
And to me the same people who are driving trucks into the wilderness are the same people who are trashing campsites or defacing signs to keep the woods private for them.

 

That's just crazy talk right there

MikeK wrote

What the state should have done is reclassified that land as Wild Forest and kept the road.  Not all of Pharaoh, just that little bit.

I think the state has reclassified the Crane Pond road as a primitive corridor or something.  Not positive about this.  Did a quick google and couldn't find it but I remember seeing it on a map somewhere.

Harvey wrote

MikeK wrote

What the state should have done is reclassified that land as Wild Forest and kept the road.  Not all of Pharaoh, just that little bit.

I think the state has reclassified the Crane Pond road as a primitive corridor or something.  Not positive about this.  Did a quick google and couldn't find it but I remember seeing it on a map somewhere.

It is - but according to the conservationists, that designation exists for private in-holdings, and should not be used to spot zone roads into the Wilderness.

As with any legislation, the lawyers can read it different ways and the courts then decide.  So it's open to interpretation.

I tend to agree with the first statement.  I can recall a few years back being on the fence about stuff like this, but I tend to agree it defeats the purpose of the Wilderness designation.  Most advocates are willing to deal with the in-holdings because they have no other choice but the promise to them there is that the primitive corridors will go away when the state eventually snaps up the in-holding.

See - this is why people get confused.  Because the state doesn't back up the shit they talk!

I'm just firmly in the boat they should call it what it is.  If it's not complying with the Wilderness designation, make it something else and don't pretend it's not breaking the rules that they made up.

It reminds of little kids making up games and then when they start losing, changing the rules so they can win.  I see little difference sometimes between 5 year olds and politicians.

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

 
And to me the same people who are driving trucks into the wilderness are the same people who are trashing campsites or defacing signs to keep the woods private for them.

 

That's just crazy talk right there

It may not always be true, but it REALLY is the general opinion of wilderness advocates that those people are the ones that are causing the problems.

The example given is the state of campsites along or near snowmobile corridors, motorized lakes or roads and those deep into the wilderness.  The trend tends to be more impact and littering at the motor accessible sites.  My observations are purely anecdotal but in my travels I've noticed this trend.  They aren't just making it up.

And that's not to say everyone who drives a truck and camps at roadside sites is evil and ruining the park - it's those who disregard the other rules that often get lumped as ignoring the others.

And I'll say this - as much as I hate to see the park get abused, I'm all for free exchange of information about it and keeping it open for EVERY NYS resident who wishes to use it.

MikeK wrote

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

 
And to me the same people who are driving trucks into the wilderness are the same people who are trashing campsites or defacing signs to keep the woods private for them.

 

That's just crazy talk right there

It may not always be true, but it REALLY is the general opinion of wilderness advocates that those people are the ones that are causing the problems.

The example given is the state of campsites along or near snowmobile corridors, motorized lakes or roads and those deep into the wilderness.  The trend tends to be more impact and littering at the motor accessible sites.  My observations are purely anecdotal but in my travels I've noticed this trend.  They aren't just making it up.

And that's not to say everyone who drives a truck and camps at roadside sites is evil and ruining the park - it's those who disregard the other rules that often get lumped as ignoring the others.

And I'll say this - as much as I hate to see the park get abused, I'm all for free exchange of information about it and keeping it open for EVERY NYS resident who wishes to use it.

I'm lucky in that 99.9% of my time in the woods, whether in the Dacks or CNY, is on private land so I guess I just don't see the areas you're talking about. If I had to guess, simply a guess here, the majority of the ones doing all the damage are NOT locals or even NYS residents. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, because I really don't know.

Yep. If they let one area bend rules, other people will do the same in other areas and conflict arises. It doesn't bother me there are some wooded roads people can use as long as they don't leave trash behind, but how do you assure that ?

I belong to an ATV club here. 100+ miles of trails, one of the largest in the state. Our trails are clean, no litter and if there's erosion we fix it. If we didn't keep it clean, we would lose trail segments.

There was a really nice swimming hole when I was a kid in Pennsylvania. Clear water. Cliffs to jump from. An island. It was wonderful. For years many people went there, no issues.

I went back as an adult and there were truckloads of beer cans. Huge pile of them and more scattered about. The owner closed the area.

campgottagopee wrote

 Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, because I really don't know.

Smartest thing camp has ever posted!

campgottagopee wrote

I'm lucky in that 99.9% of my time in the woods, whether in the Dacks or CNY, is on private land so I guess I just don't see the areas you're talking about. If I had to guess, simply a guess here, the majority of the ones doing all the damage are NOT locals or even NYS residents. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, because I really don't know.

I don't know if that's luck or what but when I say Wilderness, I don't mean out in the woods on private land.  I mean state land that is designated and managed by a certain set of rules.  One big rule is no motors (and apparently that one gets broken on S&R but I suppose that's excusable).

The other big designation is Wild Forest.  That is state land where motorized recreation is OK on roads and lakes.  Snowmobiles are allowed on the the trail systems.

If it's your own land*, it isn't the political Wilderness, so don't worry.  Do what you want.  I'm fine with that.


*Even though I say that, we all know it isn't really yours and you are just borrowing it for some time.  You still can't do WHATEVER you want, but you have more freedom than state land in the forest preserve.

ScottyJack wrote

campgottagopee wrote

 Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, because I really don't know.

Smartest thing camp has ever posted!

No doubt

MikeK wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I'm lucky in that 99.9% of my time in the woods, whether in the Dacks or CNY, is on private land so I guess I just don't see the areas you're talking about. If I had to guess, simply a guess here, the majority of the ones doing all the damage are NOT locals or even NYS residents. Maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, because I really don't know.

I don't know if that's luck or what but when I say Wilderness, I don't mean out in the woods on private land.  I mean state land that is designated and managed by a certain set of rules.  One big rule is no motors (and apparently that one gets broken on S&R but I suppose that's excusable).

The other big designation is Wild Forest.  That is state land where motorized recreation is OK on roads and lakes.  Snowmobiles are allowed on the the trail systems.

If it's your own land*, it isn't the political Wilderness, so don't worry.  Do what you want.  I'm fine with that.


*Even though I say that, we all know it isn't really yours and you are just borrowing it for some time.  You still can't do WHATEVER you want, but you have more freedom than state land in the forest preserve.

nevermind

I hadn't exactly intended this thread to be about the Crane Pond Road, but I guess with that video in the first post...

Anyway it's gotten worse and the judgement of some of those trying to use it isn't so great either.

Thanks for the early morning laugh!!!

Guess he forgot to put the snorkel on before he went up the road.

Mud's a weird thing. On our atv club's trails we encountered some sun baked mud, the kind where deep cracks appear and a very thick 4 inch crust on top. My gal drove onto it and got stuck. As we walked around the machine surveying the situation, her foot broke through the crust and she sunk up to the top of her leg. No way did it look that deep.

I think the word is the state is finally going to shut it down.

I suggest investing in one of these if you want to paddle Crane Pond:

MikeK wrote

I think the word is the state is finally going to shut it down.

I suggest investing in one of these if you want to paddle Crane Pond:

Hitch a big dog ( or ol lady) up to it and you're good to go. Wait, you may also need to bring your cat.... cat o' nine tails !

Or you can always do what I do...

MikeK wrote

I think the word is the state is finally going to shut it down.

Mike where did you see this?  Share a link?

MikeK wrote

I suggest investing in one of these if you want to paddle Crane Pond:

Or maybe one of these:

Harvey wrote

MikeK wrote

I think the word is the state is finally going to shut it down.

Mike where did you see this?  Share a link?

Nothing official.  Just something through the grapevine supposedly originating from DEC employees in that area.

I think it has gone from being ridiculous to becoming dangerous.  That will usually put the kibosh on a situation.

Of course we don't know if the locals will come back, build a bridge and defeat anything the state may do to try to shut the road down.