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New Reality

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raisingarizona

Re: New Reality

We really need a limit on how many kids people can have. Humans are like an out of control virus.

ScottyJack

Re: New Reality

Concur

And I concur with MC too and have stated previously support for these things. Its not rocket science.... CoachCoalJonhnnyLovestRumpSpot!

I ride with Crazy Horse!

witch hobble

Re: New Reality

In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589

"Oh yeah Matt? Which of your overlords' ideas are those? Rachel Maddow? George Soros? Antifa?" - Coach

evantful

Re: New Reality

Or we can just stop growing or actually cut our population. Its really that easy. Imagine a world that had 1960's and 70's populations (about half our current) coupled with our current pollution regulations and efficacy increases.

So many of the issues we have faced, whether it be climate change, overburdened infrastructure, water quality issues, etc etc etc etc would be massively alleviated by getting our breeding under control. Humanity did it, we are the masters of our own destiny, no need to keep up primal breeding habbits. It wouldn't take a one child policy. Even if we went to a two or three child policy, we would have negative growth due to many choosing to only have one or no children.

The biggest issue, beyond the social norm's of enacting something like that, is economic growth as we know it would forever change.

ScottyJack

Re: New Reality

Ib totally stoked with that!

I ride with Crazy Horse!

freeheeln

Re: New Reality

In reply to this post by raisingarizona

raisingarizona wrote

Stop buying that cheap shit from Walmart? Honestly I don't think there are any solutions. Matt loves to come up with and talk about how we could fix everything but history says different, it's like we are programmed for tragedy with an MO no different than aggressive cancer.

Fixedheeln has been making an effort to 'buy it once'. May be more costly for the initial purchase , but not disposable product. Recently purchased Calphalon cookware, will last our lifetime plus. We now use cloth napkins also. With our recycling we are down to 1 kitchen bag of garbage a week. Will be even less when we start composting. It's a start.

Tele turns are optional not mandatory.

Re: New Reality

freeheeln wrote

raisingarizona wrote

Stop buying that cheap shit from Walmart? Honestly I don't think there are any solutions. Matt loves to come up with and talk about how we could fix everything but history says different, it's like we are programmed for tragedy with an MO no different than aggressive cancer.

Fixedheeln has been making an effort to 'buy it once'. May be more costly for the initial purchase , but not disposable product. Recently purchased Calphalon cookware, will last our lifetime plus. We now use cloth napkins also. With our recycling we are down to 1 kitchen bag of garbage a week. Will be even less when we start composting. It's a start.

This I totally agree with. 10+ years ago I was a supplier to companies that sold to Walmart. They purposely want to buy sub par quality product at insanely low prices. They make huge margin to sell these low quality products to sheep who thought they got a great deal and then go back and buy the same shit over and over when it dies on a planned premature life. Idiots! I have not spent a single cent at Walmart in over 15 years as a result. Buy quality is my mantra. This business philosophy is a huge problem for the environment.

if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time

Re: New Reality

In reply to this post by MC2 5678F589

At least Matt has some ideas to fix things that make some sense though it does nothing to address lowering emissions from China and India where the real polluting is taking place.

Matt seems conservative compared with Eco Fascist population control ideas that AZ SJ and the others came up with. Holy shit you guys are truely scarring the shit out of me. This stuff makes the tweets of Trump seem sane.

if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time

billyymc

Re: New Reality

In reply to this post by freeheeln

freeheeln wrote

Recently purchased Calphalon cookware, will last our lifetime plus.

I also try to purchase quality items that will outlast me. Problem is that much of it will get thrown away when I die anyway.

The vast majority of the population just wants more. More stuff, bigger houses, bigger more conspicuous cars, mo money and mo ho's. Most people don't even have time to use all the crap they have.

There's no turning back the clock. Humans are f'd up, greedy, self serving, mean animals, and we will eventually cease to exist. The wars over who's god is the real one will pale in comparison to the wars that will be fought when resources truly become scarce.

evantful

Re: New Reality

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Z

Coach, you wanted an idea that would have a fundamental change on basically everything that pressures society. So you got the most blatant one. Its also a solution I stated thats most likely never going to happen due to social norms.

The reality is you can go after all the low hanging, high percentage emissions curbing, infrastructure build out, food growing, water preservation methods you want, and arguably we already have done most of what we can, but doesn't matter if the population grows at .5%-1.5% percent per year.

In 1970's, at the dawn of major pushes in environmental regulation, the US population stood at 213 million people. Today it sits at 323 million. 110 million people added. We increased our population by 50%. You can regulate all you want, but every additional person creates, consumes, and expends.

By 2060, which will be in my life time, we are projected to add another 100 million people. Where are they going to go? Much of Suburbia has been built out. More Urbanization? Which inherently means more rental housing than home ownership. So much for the American dream.

And full disclosure, Im 30yo registered Republican, who owns a boat, didn't vote for Donny, plans on having a kid, and likes trees.

campgottagopee

Re: New Reality

evantful wrote

And full disclosure, Im 30yo registered Republican, who owns a boat, didn't vote for Donny, plans on having a kid, and likes trees.

LARRY!

billyymc

Re: New Reality

In reply to this post by evantful

evantful wrote

In 1970's, at the dawn of major pushes in environmental regulation, the US population stood at 213 million people. Today it sits at 323 million. 110 million people added.

Dirty little secret about population growth is that it's the foundation of economic growth.

Negative population growth = economic retraction.

There's no good end game, but nobody alive today will be around when it collapses.

Humans are stupid. Nobody will really miss us when we're gone.

Re: New Reality

In reply to this post by evantful

Evan

Those population growth numbers are misleading. The US has a declining birth rate so its not the existing US population that caused the doubling but thru both legal and illegal immigration that caused this. From 1970 to 2015 the US had 33.7M legal immigrants plus countless millions more illegals. Immigrants of both types have much higher birth rates than the established citizens so they caused the compounding effect. I'm all for legal immigration - its what has made this country great but clearly we can't keep up this doubling of the population for the reasons you stated.

If we want to reduce the pollution in the world we need to focus on India and China. I've been there and I can tell you that the US is infinitely better in controlling emissions than these other countries that are the real problem. Any agreement that allows them to kick the can down the road 30 years is bat shit crazy. Allowing those economies to grow at unchecked rates also drives their population growth which needs to get balanced I'd agree but thru incentives not eco fascist population controls.

if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time

billyymc

Re: New Reality

Z wrote

Immigrants of both types have much higher birth rates than the established citizens so they caused the compounding effect.

Immigrants of both types help fuel economic growth in the U.S., so there is no incentive from those in power to reduce either.

Money talks. In the end, on a large scale generalized level, nothing else really matters.

JTG4eva!

Re: New Reality

So, putting it all together......Trump's new plan should be more immigrants, whom we sterilize on the way in! Just connecting all y'all's dots....😜😈

We REALLY need a proper roll eyes emoji!!

raisingarizona

Re: New Reality

A focus on sustainability instead of never ending growth sure would be nice but we aren't programmed for that! Maybe that's an argument for socialism but then you can say goodby to true freedom. The cycle continues. Every advanced human civilization has come to an end through the same basic sort of events and circumstances. One thing that I don't agree on is that the collapse won't occur during our lifetimes, hopefully it won't but I don't think it's that far off either. I can't help but feel that when someone says "well it won't happen in our lifetimes" they are basically using an age old coping mechanism and prefer to stay in denial. I really feel that our kids might see it because we are teetering on the edge of that shit storm right now.

tjf1967

Re: New Reality

In reply to this post by Z

That is what all the greenies in the States want. They are not concerned about the world in its entirety only the slice where they muck it up. They are smart people and know that growth is needed to support their lifestyle they just don't want it in an area where they have to breath. Elitist at their best.

raisingarizona

Re: New Reality

tjf1967 wrote

That is what all the greenies in the States want. They are not concerned about the world in its entirety only the slice where they muck it up. They are smart people and know that growth is needed to support their lifestyle they just don't want it in an area where they have to breath. Elitist at their best.

Yup, look at the way a lot of rich, Sierra Clubbers live.

MC2 5678F589

Re: New Reality

Are we sure we want to blame Sierra Club "elitists", instead of, oh, I don't know, a President who hired the CEO of Exxon Mobil, pushed for more coal mining, and glad-handed the corrupt leader of an oil dependent petro-state?

Say what you will about the Sierra Club, but at least they're trying to help the problem. Here's some stuff on Z's big concern, India and China:

Overall, the number of coal-fired power plants under development worldwide saw a dramatic drop in 2016. This is mainly due to shifting policies in Asia, including a dramatic clampdown on new coal plant projects by Chinese central authorities and financial retrenchment by coal plant backers in India. In China and India, construction is now frozen at over 100 project sites.

In addition the decline in new plant development, the survey also found a record-breaking 64 gigawatts of coal plant retirements in the past two years, mainly in the European Union and the U.S. -- the equivalent of nearly 120 large coal-fired units (see note).

According to the report, the combination of a slowed new coal plant pipeline and an increase in outdated coal plant retirements brings the possibility of holding global temperature increase to below 2°C above pre-industrial levels “within feasible reach,” provided countries continue to step up action.

“This has been a messy year, and an unusual one,” said Ted Nace, director of CoalSwarm. “It’s not normal to see construction frozen at scores of locations, but central authorities in China and bankers in India have come to recognize overbuilding of coal plants is a major waste of resources. However abrupt, the shift from fossil fuels to clean sources in the power sector is a positive one for health, climate security, and jobs. And by all indications, the shift is unstoppable.”

“The staggering uptick in clean energy and reduction in the new coal plant pipeline is even more proof that coal isn't just bad for public health and the environment -- it's bad for the bottom line,” said Nicole Ghio, senior campaigner for the Sierra Club’s International Climate and Energy Campaign. “Markets are demanding clean energy, and no amount of rhetoric from Donald Trump will be able to stop the fall of coal in the U.S. and across the globe.”

Report: http://endcoal.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/BoomBust2017-English-Final.pdf

raisingarizona

Re: New Reality

I wasn't blaming anyone, just pointing out the hypocrisy of many Sierra Club and NIMBY religion fanatic types.

I'm hopeful that the market will naturally phase out coal sometime in the near future.

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