Okemo Announces New 6 Passenger Bubble Chair

I just hope more people go to Okemo...and the rest of Southern Vermont....and less stay on the Northway

can you imagine....a bubble and heated seats on the summit quad...it would never run

I am curious how the heating mechanism for the chairs works.  Is it an electric coil with batteries?  If so, how are they recharged?  Or maybe they burn kero?  The heaters in Gore's gondi burn kero, and to my knowledge have never been used.

The heating is electric.  There are contacts on the grip and in the terminal, similar to the third rail on the subway that allow the battery to recharge in the terminals.  The batteries should also recharge at night when the chairs are offline since they have said that the chairs will be stored offline at night.

Also, another important thing.

Coach Z wrote

Loco this is perfect for you

Boring groomers and a cushy chair

Okemo and Park City's marketing demographic are identical

Coach, this is perfect for you, a cushy lift which you have said many times that you like.  Remember what you thought about Belleayre's lifts which have no padding at all.

Compared to sitting on a piece of plywood some padding I think everyone is going to prefer.  Padding is cheap heaters and bubbles are not.

They are going to a pain to maintain and probably not get used at some point like the heaters in WF and Gores Gondi.  Bubbles are problems in icy and windy conditions and lead to more wind holds.

Adding to costs are a serious concern.  Lift arms wars lead to lift ticket prices going way up.

I get why Okemo is doing it.  Their target market is rich Intermediates from CT but it is bad for the industry in general.

Adk Jeff wrote

  The heaters in Gore's gondi burn kero, and to my knowledge have never been used.

Are you sure Jeff ? FWIW, Big Chuck, who ran the Gondi for years, once told me they were battery powered heaters and could only be charged when the cars were put in the coral. Since they never did that, the batteries went bad.

Doesn't matter anyway as they're never used. Back when it got really cold regularly frosting up the cabins, they may have been useful. Those were cold days.

The ski lift "arms race" is a good thing.  It is a sign of prosperity and success in the ski industry.  Okemo has been very successful and made a lot of money recently.  For that reason, they can buy a cool new lift for 7 million.  This will provide customers with a higher level experience and could possibly attract more.  Then they will become even more successful and an even better mountain.  I look forward to experiencing it for myself in winter of 14-15.  I tried Stratton this past winter, and I was very pleased with how good their conditions were, even after a bunch of freezing r*in.  I was especially pleased with their lifts (except the crappy gondola cabins which are currently being replaced).  I got in a ton of runs, and even though there were lines, they moved really quick.  There isn't much that is steep, but we went expecting groomers, not steeps. All in all, the mountain seems very successful and well suited to its marketing demographic.  If people want an upscale resort/vacation experience for skiing, the mountains have to adapt to cater to that.  You can't change what people want, but you can change your product to fit in with what they want.  Stratton, Okemo, and many of the other Vermont resorts have done this, and done it well.  Places that have not adapted will soon be left behind to go belly up.  Hidden Valley went under in spring of 2013.  Big Tupper is on and off- one year they operate, the next year they don't.  What do both places have in common?  They both have antiquated infastructure and insufficient (or nonexistant) snowmaking.  They didn't adapt to the changing market, so they were left behind.  More small places will probably go under soon for the same reason.  Let's keep in mind that skiing is a business and the market changes overtime.  Businesses must adapt to provide the good or service that their customers want.  Not doing so will result in going out of business.  If people want groomers and cushy, heated, bubbled high speed lifts, the mountains must provide that.  Okemo is doing that and will be greatly successful as a result.  Places that are rigid and do not provide what customers want will go under like Hidden Valley did.

You are sooo wrong on sooo many levels I don't even know where to start.

Things that are not really needed to improve skiing like heated lifts just drive up costs and make skiing more expensive than it all ready is.  Wait until you are 24 and dad is not buying your lift tickets anymore and see how your tune will change.

Coach Z wrote

You are sooo wrong on sooo many levels I don't even know where to start.

+1
Citing Tupper for "infastructure and insufficient (or nonexistant) snowmaking" for it's demise is ridiculous

Bubble/enclosed Lifts are right up there with ski in, ski out condos.  Nice, but not a necessity.  The "resort" mountains make most of their real profits off the 100's and 100's of rooms they have.  They do the disney model... give away the product, gouge on the lodging, shopping, and food.  Okemo is putting in roller coasters.  I'm actually surprised they are not following Jay and doing the water park.  These hills could care less about what the skiing is like.  They just want to see how many people they can pack on the hill to get more people in their hotel, buying their food, and shopping in their stores.  This lift price will be passed down the line... and the 82 dollar MIDWEEK ticket is there to show for that.  

If all the mountains adopted this model there are many of us on this site that would not be able to ski anymore.  These hills are already fighting hard with their under 30 passes to not lose a generation of skiers... and they are doing a poor job of it.  If the smaller mountains die the ski industry is shooting itself in the foot.  It is the Willard and Wests of the world that make skiing affordable.    

Yea, but the kid makes a lot of sense. After all, isn't what he said the trend at ski areas nationwide/worldwide ? As such how can it be faulted if he's just reporting it here ?

As I recall, people here celebrated and Woo Hoo'ed!!  when Gore and Face got new fancy smancy lifts or upgraded their old snowmaking, so why the beefin ?

Sno's correct. Don't improve your snowmaking, have consistent crappy conditions and old lifts with long wait times and you'll pay a price. Perhaps a very steep price.

Fact is unless Tupper gets a modern snowmaking system and lifts, it's doomed to fail. It's location alone gives it two strikes.

Sno, you're very informed,wise and patient for such a young'un. Old Curmudgeons could learn from you.

Tickets prices are getting scary. It's kinda like college. The more people are willing to pay, the more money thrown at it, the more expensive it becomes. The price of college has gone up over %1000 percent since 1980.

Blowing 20 ft of snow and having the best lifts around wouldn't have saved Tupper. It relied on the local economy

Coach Z wrote

You are sooo wrong on sooo many levels I don't even know where to start.

Things that are not really needed to improve skiing like heated lifts just drive up costs and make skiing more expensive than it all ready is.  Wait until you are 24 and dad is not buying your lift tickets anymore and see how your tune will change.

Unfortunately he is sooo right on sooo many levels.
There will be fewer ski areas and they will be catering to the high end, I think what you are seeing is the same as we see throughout many aspects of our society today. It is a separation of classes. The high end gets more expensive and smaller and the low end gets the dregs and the middle disappears. Coach, WF (and Gore and Bell) are anomalies in the market - they would never survive with their operating structure in a free market, they need the state aid. Oh - you say they make money, but if they had to compete for capital just like everybody else and they did not have access to state land and did not operate tax free they would fold like a cheap suit.

However you are right - wait until he gets to be 24, Dad just spent $250K for a college education and the poor kid can't find a job. At that point neither Dad nor Sno will be able to buy a lift ticket but the College Pres making a cool $2.3M (like Shirley at RPI) sure as hell will. Something is terribly wrong with this picture.

The money spent on lifts does not always translate into higher prices. They will claim that they have to raise prices  because of what they spend, but ski areas charge what they can get. I skied the last weekend in March at Stratton last season for $33/day. The whole place was open. There were online discounts all season at Stratton. You just need some advanced planning.

Okemo competes with Stratton/Mt Snow/Bretton Woods/Loon/Waterville - areas that seem to cater to a higher income demographic. Adding the bubble 6 is a great marketing move. The lift might not even be increasing the uphill capacity.

PeeTex - the idea that the president of RPI (a "non-profit") makes $2.3million is disgusting. I wonder if that number includes the 20,000 sq ft house in Troy and the 10,000 sq ft lodge in Bolton Landing. If you have college age kids the only thing you can do is avoid those overpriced colleges and universities and send your kids to state schools. At some point they might get the message.

PeeTex wrote

Unfortunately he is sooo right on sooo many levels.
There will be fewer ski areas and they will be catering to the high end, I think what you are seeing is the same as we see throughout many aspects of our society today. It is a separation of classes. The high end gets more expensive and smaller and the low end gets the dregs and the middle disappears. Coach, WF (and Gore and Bell) are anomalies in the market - they would never survive with their operating structure in a free market, they need the state aid. Oh - you say they make money, but if they had to compete for capital just like everybody else and they did not have access to state land and did not operate tax free they would fold like a cheap suit.

Going to take off my coach hat and put on my MBA hat

To stick up for Orda WF and Gore the conventional thinking goes make money but the other Orda venues xc, sledding, ski jump, convention center lose more than the ski areas make.  We can't be 100% sure of this because of the way Orda reports revenue by venue but not profit that way.  Those other venues are part of why Lake Placid is ranked so high in other activities and help with summer biz in the region.

Let's face it skiing is an expensive sport but the ski areas have an obligation to keep it affordable or we will see participation decline.  The 20 thru early 30s demo is the one most at risk due to costs.  I think orda has done a good job of putting a good but not luxury product out while keeping prices within reason.  Okemo getting into a lift arms war with Mt Snow is a bad trend that hurts the industry.  Decent lifts and snowmaking are essential to good product.  Heated seats not so much.

WF, Gore, and Belleayre could exist without state aid.  They would not be able to exist the way they are and would all be like Okemo, Stratton, K Mart and many more.

As for college price, I know I am in the top 20 of a class of 395.  Although I don't do any sports at school, my grades should help bring down the college price.  I want to get close to the skiing.  Although I have not done any paperwork yet, there is some chance I will end up at SUNY Albany as it gives me the choice of Gore and all the Southern Vermont mountains all within easy reach.  I would also be close to Jiminy Peak for night skiing which means even more days on the slopes.  I am 15 and choosing what college I go to is still a ways off.  I am all for just about any skiing improvement, including fancy heated ski lifts like what OKemo is getting.

The season pass prices are actually about the same at Stratton as they are at Windham and you get early lift access at 7:45 at Stratton.  My dad did shell out 172 dollars at the ticket window when we went last February, but that was full list price.  I we looked for discounts, we probably could have spent less.  Okemo is more expensive than Stratton is, but it is a multi resort pass that includes Sunapee.

This is what I think of this thread, as amusing as it is.

Coach Z wrote

Going to take off my coach hat and put on my MBA hat

Did you get that MBA on the back of a match box? I won't compare academic paper's with you let alone the institutions where you attended - I would not want to embarrass you - but I doubt you have ever run a business given what you just said. ORDA did not have to pay for the land they occupy, they don't even pay rent or use fees - the f*cking land is free for them, how many ski areas enjoy that? They don't pay taxes - if you ever ran a GD business in the blood sucking state you would have a f*cking clue, I have run and sold several successful businesses here despite the GD states attempts to tax my ass off. I am just happy all I have to do now is consult for those poor suckers who are trying to make their way in the vampire state.

Sno - if you are planning on going to college for a trade (like engineering, medical, etc) then just find a good technical school, the best way is to go to the recruiting office and find out what companies send recruiters to the school, I usually passed up SUNY schools as well as the big Ivies. However in today's market many of the companies I work with don't even bother with BS degree candidates, they look at MS as a minimum, they have so many resumes it's just a way to be more selective. If you want to pair that with skiing, you options are limited. We have been discussing this very same thing with my grand daughter. I hope she lands at Dartmouth so she will be close.

Pee
I have had a long and successful career working for some of the largest companies in the world in management. I spent a long time as the #2 manager at a company based in NYS so I'm aware of what you are talking about.  Regardless both WF and Gore I'm sure would be as profitable as private peer resorts if they were not part of Orda.  Because they are public they can offer pretty reasonable season passes.  How is this a bad thing?  If you come back about your taxes way more is being wasted in the state by many other things.  Hey it's also a free country why don't you go and move to WY then.  Oh yeah right you are a consultant and you need the businesses that are located in NYS to survive.  You know what they say about consultants.  If you were successful you be doing it not begging for work where you attempt to tell others what might work.

I get that you don't like being taxed.  You and I share that for sure but going political is a no no in this forum.

By the way you do understand that the vast majority of major ski areas in the country are on state or US Federal Land right?  From your post that is clearly news to you.  Might want to check your facts before spouting off next time.

As of now, I am planning on studying economics.  My dad also highly suggests that I do that.

Coach Z wrote

  If you were successful you be doing it not begging for work where you attempt to tell others what might work.

Z - you know so little, but that doesn't surprise anybody here. I retired 15 years ago in the peak of the t-com boom when I sold my last company for more than you will ever see. I only consult to help poor clueless MBAs like yourself have a chance at making something out of their poor pathetic business plans.