Okemo Announces New 6 Passenger Bubble Chair

snoloco wrote

As of now, I am planning on studying economics.  My dad also highly suggests that I do that.

You would best be served to look at schools where the majors look, unfortunately none are "ski" colleges. Your best bet would be to target the Booth school in Chicago.

PeeTex wrote

 when I sold my last company for more than you will ever see.

Knock. Knock. Hello ! Wanna send some my way ?

I REALLY got my heart set on a Lake George house. Even got it picked out already.

3 mil will cover it. Thanks in advance !

Anyway, glad you joined this forum. Much of what you say sounds like what I've been saying here for years, ie the tax free aspect of Gore/Face, not to forget the state assembly pays for their major improvements. ORDA needs to come clean about their finances.

So, was up by Bolton today on the boat. Wonder if that college pres has one of those island homes ?  There's some nice ones.

Water temp 75 degrees. Nice and warm by LG standards. About as good as it gets on LG.

Pee
Let me correct the to old retired guy Pee.

If you are sooooooo rich and a skier why do you still live in the East.  I figure you are a flat lander at that and probably cant ski all that well.  If I was independently as wealthy as you claim to be I'd be skiing powder at Snowbird or Alta every day.

If your goal as a new guy in this forum is pissing people off you sure picked the correct  avatar name.  I'll just ignore you from now on.

I pee'd in LG today !

If I am rich when I am older, I would ski at the interconnected Canyons, Park City, and Deer Valley every day.  Hopefully the One Wasatch project is done by then.

Snowballs - thanks. Joined out of boredom. It's been fun and Z makes me laugh.

Coach Z wrote

why do you still live in the East.  

Because it's green in the summer. There are 12 months in a year.

Coach Z wrote

 If I was independently wealthy I'd be skiing powder at Snowbird or Alta every day.

They don't have powder every day. You would be better served storm chasing on your favorite airline, who knows - you may even end up at Jay some days.

Coach Z wrote

If your goal as a new guy in this forum is pissing people off you sure picked the correct  avatar name.  I'll just ignore you from now on.

Grow up.

Not sure what your problem is but you were the one that got nasty and attacked me personally.  If you want to be a troll do it elsewhere

Can't recall a meaningful addition you have added to any discussions.

Stratton is actually doing a very good job of trying to bring the cost down.  I skied a 3-day holiday weekend for 120 bucks there a a few years ago.  That 23-30 bracket though is where they all are having the biggest issue... and prices are it there.  I also think there is a 30-40 w/ kids gap, but I don't think they really care as much.  If we lose 10-15 years of skiers due to price alone we are in for it in the future.  

Also, we don't know if Okemo is actually profitable with their current model.  We know with Orda because they have to report it.  Okemo is owned by a Orlando based investment firm and operated by a separate company.  So, with that investment firm they have a decent line of credit.  There is nothing saying that they bet they are making is going to pay off.  We don't know if any of these places are actually profitable... and with the amount of time many of them spend on the auction block we can make a pretty good guess.  How many more times do we want to see mountains put on life support because we demand new flashy things at these hills?  I'm sure some companies are making a killing.  Vail resorts stock is up, so there is something there.

And Sno... if you want to go to U-Albany take a good look at their Nano-tech stuff.  If you want a guaranteed and very well paying job after you graduate it is the easy choice.  NYS has invested billions of dollars into that facility... and you can use it for a stupidly cheap tuition.  

The one source of profitably that Orda will never have is condo sakes and lodging compared to other resorts.  The state has self imposed that so it also requires done support to compete.  Building a condo complex on the river or LP lots would finance a lot of capital improvements and operating expenses but that is never going to happen.

The govt does get a payback in the form of sales and lodging taxes and the income tax from that result.

Coach Z wrote

The one source of profitably that Orda will never have is condo sakes and lodging compared to other resorts.  The state has self imposed that so it also requires done support to compete.  Building a condo complex on the river or LP lots would finance a lot of capital improvements and operating expenses but that is never going to happen.

One way to look at the issue of state ownership of the ski areas is that the state subsidy to ORDA is the price we (as New Yorkers) pay for our choice to not develop condos, hotels, second homes etc. at the base and along the slopes of our ski areas.  Others may disagree, but to me that is a price well worth paying.

NYSB editorial from 3 years ago:

http://nyskiblog.com/funding-new-yorks-state-run-ski-areas/

last paragraph:

"New York offers a different kind of ski experience. Looking out from the tops of our mountains, we see primarily wilderness. In our opinion, New York should work within this unique land use model to seek a path forward that respects Article 14 while supporting jobs and vibrant communities in both parks."

(Have to admit that three years ago we were focused primarily on eastern NY. Looking for a writer based in Ellicottville :)

If you want to preserve all that land and still have people making a LIVING in the park, somethings got to give.

Adk Jeff wrote

One way to look at the issue of state ownership of the ski areas is that the state subsidy to ORDA is the price we (as New Yorkers) pay for our choice to not develop condos, hotels, second homes etc. at the base and along the slopes of our ski areas.  Others may disagree, but to me that is a price well worth paying.

I absolutely agree with you although I think it is a bigger issue than simply building around the ski area - it is over development in the park in general. I think the Adirondack Park is one of the best places on earth. Where else can you live inside such a vast area of preserve, certainly not in Yellowstone or Yosemite. The price we pay for this is not being able to do what we want with our land.  But if you allow people to live there you need an economy to go with it and that is where the issues come in.

But back to the ORDA advantage - even private ski areas that operate on government lands pay use fees - ORDA does not. They have a distinct advantage. Hopefully ORDA will continue to offer a great experience for a good price. This is only a portion of what ORDA is about anyway.

I don't begrudge Okemo and their new bubble pack lift. I haven't been there in years and have no plans on returning.

Just the thought of looking out on all those blue squares through an orange haze, with your ass crack sweating profusely, making inane small talk with not just mom and dad but all three kids about their slope side condo....makes you miss winter, don't it?

PeeTex wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

One way to look at the issue of state ownership of the ski areas is ...

I absolutely agree with you although I think it is a bigger issue than simply building around the ski area - it is over development in the park in general. I think the Adirondack Park is one of the best places on earth. Where else can you live inside such a vast area of preserve, certainly not in Yellowstone or Yosemite. The price we pay for this is not being able to do what we want with our land.  But if you allow people to live there you need an economy to go with it and that is where the issues come in.

But back to the ORDA advantage - even private ski areas that operate on government lands pay use fees - ORDA does not. They have a distinct advantage. Hopefully ORDA will continue to offer a great experience for a good price. This is only a portion of what ORDA is about anyway.

Of course it's a bigger issue.  As I said, one way to look at the issue is...

Here's a piece I wrote for the Adirondack Almanack a few years back, in response to an editorial that had run in the Post-Star calling for privatization of the NYS-owned ski areas.  The Post-Star also ran my piece as a guest editorial, which was very nice of them to do.

I have to chuckle in light of current events, because I sound like Comptroller DiNapoli when I call for ORDA to balance their budget within 5 years (and I still think that's something ORDA should be working for).  At the same time, I think ORDA deserves a fair amount of credit for making progress on some of the points that I criticized them for (not that my recommendations had anything to do with it).

PeeTex wrote

I think the Adirondack Park is one of the best places on earth. Where else can you live inside such a vast area of preserve, certainly not in Yellowstone or Yosemite. The price we pay for this is not being able to do what we want with our land.  But if you allow people to live there you need an economy to go with it and that is where the issues come in.

PeeTex wrote

Did you get that MBA on the back of a match box? I won't compare academic paper's with you let alone the institutions where you attended - I would not want to embarrass you - but I doubt you have ever run a business given what you just said. ORDA did not have to pay for the land they occupy, they don't even pay rent or use fees - the f*cking land is free for them, how many ski areas enjoy that? They don't pay taxes - if you ever ran a GD business in the blood sucking state you would have a f*cking clue, I have run and sold several successful businesses here despite the GD states attempts to tax my ass off. I am just happy all I have to do now is consult for those poor suckers who are trying to make their way in the vampire state.

Aside from the personal attack on Coach, which I strongly disagree with, doesn't the first statement stand in contradiction with the second statement?  You really can't call the Adirondacks "one of the best places on earth" out of one side of your mouth and New York a "vampire state" out the other.  That "vast preserve" stuff costs money ya know.

witch hobble wrote

Just the thought of looking out on all those blue squares through an orange haze, with your ass crack sweating profusely, making inane small talk with not just mom and dad but all three kids about their slope side condo....makes you miss winter, don't it?

funny stuff

PeeTex wrote

Coach Z wrote

  If you were successful you be doing it not begging for work where you attempt to tell others what might work.

Z - you know so little, but that doesn't surprise anybody here. I retired 15 years ago in the peak of the t-com boom when I sold my last company for more than you will ever see. I only consult to help poor clueless MBAs like yourself have a chance at making something out of their poor pathetic business plans.

WOW, you really think a lot of yourself

I've found, like most things, whenever someone starts talking about how much money (or this or that) they have, usually they are full of shit.....just sayin

But I'm glad you're enjoying yourself

Adk Jeff wrote

One way to look at the issue of state ownership of the ski areas is that the state subsidy to ORDA is the price we (as New Yorkers) pay for our choice to not develop condos, hotels, second homes etc. at the base and along the slopes of our ski areas.  Others may disagree, but to me that is a price well worth paying.

Man, I thought this thread was going to be about some boring lift in Okemo, but now people are debating which companies they owned and which MBA's are worthless?! Sweet!

Anyway, I just came in here to say that I would absolutely welcome Condos and second home development in the Ski Bowl area. Pack em in, put a pedestrian underpass in under 28 (or a cabriolet into town like at The Canyons), more bars, more food options, actual slopeside night life scene, I'm going to agree with snoloco that lifts, snowmaking, amenities, and grooming drive skier visits. And if Gore wants to make money, they should absolutely encourage all of that. (That said, nobody's going to buy anything too expensive up there anyway. I'd like to see 1 and 2 BR condos with really nice shared pool, hot tub, walkable distance to bars and cheap burrito place, etc.).

That said, I think they should keep Whiteface undeveloped. Not only because you can't actually build anything anywhere near the place, but because I personally prefer mountains without sprawling base area complexes. I just feel like Gore is set up really well for it (you wouldn't be able to see the sprawling base area from the main mountain area, and it could serve as a great party spot/family area/moneymaker).

mattchuck2 wrote

Man, I thought this thread was going to be about some boring lift in Okemo, but now people are debating which companies they owned and which MBA's are worthless?! Sweet!

Solid comment all the way around MC but this part is Larry.