Park City saga continues

Missing that lease renewal date has got to be the biggest f-up in the history of the ski industry

How do you take 9 lifts out and parts of others in 2 months? It's the nuclear option that PC looks ready to play

I hate the place and will never ski there again but if they shut down its bad for skiing the rest of Utah when all the people end up in the Cottonwood resorts

http://m.powder.com/stories/park-city-turf-wars/

Coach Z wrote

Missing that lease renewal date has got to be the biggest f-up in the history of the ski industry

How do you take 9 lifts out and parts of others in 2 months? It's the nuclear option that PC looks ready to play

I hate the place and will never ski there again but if they shut down its bad for skiing the rest of Utah when all the people end up in the Cottonwood resorts

http://m.powder.com/stories/park-city-turf-wars/

The sure will find a way to make the lifts unusable for Vail in as short a time as possible.  I am actually enjoying the drama and I hope Killington gets some lifts.

They have estimated that the closure of Park City for even one season would be detrimental to the area.  All of the local snowboarders would end up at The Canyons because they would be the only resort in the area that allows it.  The skiers would be split between Deer Valley and The Canyons, but more would likely choose Deer Valley since The Canyons would be overrun with snowboarders.  Everyone else would be forced to choose one of the Cottonwood resorts, or go to Colorado instead.  That is a lot of business the area isn't getting.

What is so bad about Park City anyway?  From what I see, it looks like a great mountain with plenty of terrain for everyone.  I was seriously looking into a trip there soon, but with this lawsuit, there is no way I am booking a trip to that place, or The Canyons since it would be overrun with Park City refugees and I will likely end up in Colorado instead (once I talk my dad into going which everyone here can assist me in doing).

Holy cow.

Snoloco's thinking is likely to be shared by many destination skiers.  Not looking good.

Wow. The fact that PCMR controls access to the contested leased land seems like a pivotal point in negotiations. I wonder if there is some sort of deeded right of way not mentioned in the article.

PC runs are short roughly about 1000 vert and are very similar to each other with few memorable runs.  It's like skiing thru the movie groundhog Day.  It takes a min of 5 or 6 lift rides to get to the 2 semi decent terrain pods worth skiing.  Much of the snow on the lower and mid mt is blown so it skis not at all like good western skiing.  The town except for Main Street is like a strip mall.  The is little to like here.  This is the worst western ski area period and I have been almost everywhere.

If Vail can't get the land at the bottom They plan to try to connect the Canyons to the or upper sections of PC

Regardless if this goes down it's bad for Utah and good for Colorado which might be Vails true motive at least short term

Please don't say you are now planning to go to Keystone.  Try Copper instead.  Good access plenty of terrain for all abilities.  Good lift infrastructure.  Some excellent expert terrain and free snow cat skiing.

I would second Copper, IMHO if you are doing lift served it is the best in Co of the places I have been. For someone who is new to off piste there is an area in the back where the cornice builds from about a 6" drop to over 10' so you can slowly work your way up as your confidence & skills improve.

Coach Z wrote

It takes a min of 5 or 6 lift rides to get to the 2 semi decent terrain pods worth skiing.  Much of the snow on the lower and mid mt is blown so it skis not at all like good western skiing.  The town except for Main Street is like a strip mall.  The is little to like here.  This is the worst western ski area period and I have been almost everywhere.

Please don't say you are now planning to go to Keystone.  Try Copper instead.  Good access plenty of terrain for all abilities.  Good lift infrastructure.  Some excellent expert terrain and free snow cat skiing.

What are the two semi decent pods.  The farthest one is Jupiter, and you can get there in minimum of 3 lift rides, take Crescent to Silverlode to Jupiter.  McConkey's takes 3 lifts as well, Payday to Bonanza to McConkey's.  Blue Sky Basin at Vail can take up to 4 lift rides to get to.  Bottom to top at Gore takes 4 lifts as well, plus multiple cat tracks.

The big draw for Keystone is the night skiing since I want to have lots of time to get in all the skiing I want.  I can get about 12 hours in there.  Copper does look like an awesome place, and the lifts are mostly high speed with footrests (my mom tries to avoid lifts without them).  The only issue I see with Colorado is the I-70 traffic which I heard can be like the GWB at rush hour.  Another option that you suggested was Steamboat.  It has its own airport, so you can fly right to the resort and that means no traffic, and no rental car.

Crescent actually is not located at the base.  It's a couple hundred vert uphill.  We started at the Eagle lift

It's way more 3d then it looks on the map which is also one of my grips so it's a bitch to get around.  It will take you min an hour if you know what you are doing to get to mckonkeys
An hour and a half with some considerable skating to get to Jupiter
Everyone of those lifts on the map as you go to your right is a couple hundred vert higher and you need that vert to get to each progressive terrain pod.  Can't get there from here.

Night skiing sucks and in your prime physical condition no way you make it past 3 pm at altitude.  At night you can only ski some low altitude groomers.  That is not why I go ski out west.  If that is your thing then you will like Park City or Keystone just fine.

Totally agree about a Canyons lots of traversing not much actual skiing

I love Steamboat but the airport is about an hour and a $75 shuttle per person away.  It's not as close as they make it seem.  You are right at the wrong time of day the drive down to Denver can be bad.  I try to book flights at times to avoid that drive back to Denver or fly to Eagle.

So it sounds like Gore's layout, only on a larger scale.  Each lift from the ski bowl to the summit is about a couple hundred feet higher than the last one.  Burnt Ridge is about 200 feet higher than Hudson Chair and the Gondola is about 200 feet higher than Burnt Ridge.  Getting from the Ski Bowl to Burnt Ridge involves some skating.  Only difference that makes Gore's layout better is that the main base is at the Gondola, so you can reach any part of the mountain in maximum of 2 lifts from there.  Come to think of it, having to traverse more than ski is something I don't like in a mountain, so to your delight, Park City is out.

I actually put in more days after dark, so night skiing isn't a problem for me.

In my experience the elevation where you are sleeping is the key number. And it has less to do with fitness and more to do with genetics and  the amount of time you're spent acclimating.When I did hut to hut in summit county Colorado  I was in great shape (for me) but sleeping above 10000 (one night above 11,000) left me with a headache for most of the time.  I actually got used to it and had a great time.

What is the elevation of hotels and accommodations at Keystone?

Harvey wrote

What is the elevation of hotels and accommodations at Keystone?

Keystone's summits are 11,640; 11,660; and 11,980.  The only one that you can ski to the base area from is 11,640.  The lowest elevation is 9,280 feet.  The River Run Gondola goes down to 9,300 feet, so you are sleeping around that elevation since we would stay on hill most likely.

That's pretty high to sleep at.  I stayed there a long time ago.

Breck is the worst for me from an altitude to sleep at perspective.  It's around 10k

The issue with Keystone us that it averages only around 200 Inches of snow per year not much more than Whiteface and way below average for Colorado and well less than half of what Snowbird or Alta get

I just read that Colorado had a record, or near record year last season. I did not see the figures for Utah, but, I'm guessing that Colorado is on a roll with the availability of substances to make a ski vacation even more fun for the average schmoe. This whole situation is not very good at all for the state's ski business, because Park City, like it or not, is the town to stay for a week for most people. I know a group of gapers who have gone there three out of the last seven years and love the place, and, I can see their point. Much like Breck and Aspen, it's an all inclusive ski town that doesn't require a car for the ski week. This will be disastrous for the state's business, until they clear things up. Snowbasin and Powder to the north depend a lot on visiting Park City skiers, as do the two canyons south.

Good time to sniff around and price a condo or two in town. Betcha the market is stagnant to down with this going on.

Yea I bet the real estate agents are loving this.  Deals on "slopeside."

http://www.parkrecord.com/park_city-news/ci_26175608/pcmr-v-talisker-three-mayors-one-letter-vail

http://www.parkrecord.com/park_city-news/ci_26217855/pcmr-v-talisker-surprise-move-may-save-resorts

After all appeals have been exhausted, and if Cummings is truly required to vacate the land, what role does Vail play in PC's property? I am still very confused with this aspect of the case. Does this mean that Vail gains control of PCMR under its existing $25M a year lease for the Canyons with Talisker, or does it mean that Talisker would negotiate a separate lease with Vail for PCMR?

Vail would get the decent high altitude terrain and have to connect it with the canyons eventually with a lift.  That lift would need to get permitted etc so 4 years makes sense.  The legal end game is that Pmcr will likely lose the lawsuit and then the only logical thing for them to do will be to sell the land at the bottom and lifts to Vail.

This is a good one for all of the Utah aficionados here.

http://grizzlyadam.net/2014/04/leaked-one-wasatch.html

That's hilarious.

Never even considered the Alta snowboarder thing.