R.I.P. Greek Peak

if they go bankrupt anyone that had paid for a seasons pass for this upcoming season will be a low ranking creditor of the old operation and not a pass holder for whom ever comes in a picks up the pieces at auction

you may want to file a claim with your credit card company but I'm not sure that will work

gorgonzola wrote

btw i really need to get up there soon for a few spins around shindagin and hammond hill!

lemme know when you'll be riding...I ride both whenever I can

Coach Z wrote

if they go bankrupt anyone that had paid for a seasons pass for this upcoming season will be a low ranking creditor of the old operation and not a pass holder for whom ever comes in a picks up the pieces at auction

you may want to file a claim with your credit card company but I'm not sure that will work

No worries...we'll be skiing next winter at Greek Peak. Your pass will be good and the lifts will turn. Under who's management/financing will be questionable, but it will run. I doubt they will close doors.

Powderqueen wrote

Coach Z wrote

if they go bankrupt anyone that had paid for a seasons pass for this upcoming season will be a low ranking creditor of the old operation and not a pass holder for whom ever comes in a picks up the pieces at auction

you may want to file a claim with your credit card company but I'm not sure that will work

No worries...we'll be skiing next winter at Greek Peak. Your pass will be good and the lifts will turn. Under who's management/financing will be questionable, but it will run. I doubt they will close doors.

I'm sure they will open too but if they don't I have very reliable information that Song Mountain will honor any and all GP 12-13 passes.

tjf1967 wrote

Why would the tax payers have to pick up the tab?  Probably better to let them go bankrupt.  Someone else will be able to pick it up  at auction for a lot less money.  How is getting a bigger loan going to help mid term?
Those employment numbers they are throwing around seem way out of line.  Way way out.

Why???? Common TJ U know how this crap works....the place is a $48 million dollar project origianlly assed at 24 million, GP sued they town of Virgil claiming they should be assed at 4.3 million, after the law suit they settled on 14 million. When you lose that kind of tax for schools, DPW, etc etc where do you think that kind of $$$$ comes from???? Yup the residents of Virgil, oh sure they'll come up with some kinda BS having us believe otherwise but I'm sick of buying into this crap.

Powderqueen wrote

Jamesdeluxe wrote

I'm here in CNY for the weekend and the local paper (the Post-Standard, aka the Sub-Standard) didn't even cover the story in today's edition.

James, Greek Peak is not really in the Syracuse market. It was in our paper and the Binghamton paper. It's just not big news in Syracuse.

One of my friends who grew up skiing GP, formerly from Binghamton wrote:

This is nothing for Big Al.  If anything, he'll come out of this better than before.  And I'm totally serious here.
If he was in default of loan covenants, that would be a problem.  But this he can instead blame on the financial crisis and out-of-state banks.
Sure, no other bank would ever sensibly lend to him.  But why do you think the Governor has railed against NY's umpteen development corporations or districts (or whatever they are)?  Some quasi-governmental something-or-other is sure to float some easy $$ to one of Central NY's finest "job creators" -- Al already has a U.S. senator on his side, and spinning these "the end is nigh" stories to the press will create a sense of crisis that will help him even more.
Meanwhile, gotta love the irony of a "ski resort" that has $35 million in recent debt yet hasn't made a significant capital improvement to the actual "ski" part of the "resort" since . . . hmm, the 1977 triple chair!  (Granted he did replace the t-bars with a double chair, and he did replace all but the towers of the yellow chair, but he probably got all that for free.)

I've spent 40 years living and skiing at GP....your firend is right, Al has been pulling stunts forever, that said, like everything else, all good things come to an end.....eventually. This could b the final straw....time will tell.

gorgonzola wrote

scary situation for sure as the deadline for someone to assume the loan is sometime in august i believe. i personally think that the hotel/park developments are good things and think the incremental approach al has taken over the last few years is a sound one. could the marketing and management be better? sure, but this project has been a huge undertaking and  i think they've done a pretty good job overall. i guess that's why i invested in this adventure as an owner 6 years ago. while personally i'd love to see more on hill improvements, thats not what brings in most of the families that are spending the the real money. my son will tell you all about when he cant drop $50 a day in the park and arcade with the other kids while were heating up our frozen lasagne . unfortunately the reality is that us "core skiers" account for little significant revenue at most areas with our discounted season tix and a few beers at the bars. 6 years ago after i signed on up there the initial financing fell through and delayed the hotel project but it eventually came through. i have no idea what happens when your lender defaults during a bad snow year but the fact is the hotel/park  has had decent occupancy rates and it's a great hill so i'm confident i'll be having a few runs and beers with camp and the a18 gang and yukkin it up on the shuttle with snowmonkey this season!

btw i really need to get up there soon for a few spins around shindagin and hammond hill!

As an owner I'm sure you get to see better financial info than the rest of us, so I'm sure you're right on the Hotel #'s. How many years has GP been dangling the new lift carrot in front of us now.....just seems they coiuld give to sh*ts about that hill. Chair 5 has SO much potential for new terrain that it's crazy, it could be sooooo good over there. They've had that "new" trail expansion map up now for what, 15 years???? Just fed up with it.

When your up i'll go with ya to the shin

Wow...

So much info and like Campog.. I hate to see tax payer money go to projects.    

That said...how many millions did we give Solara, and others?  

Big money boys make a science of scamming us low lifes, using tax payer or investor money.     Build a 50Million hotel, let it go bancrupt and buy it back for 10cents on the dollar, under a new name.     All good, until it happens to you.   Take a look at some of Donald Trump's buildings.    

As for the town and the tax assessement.   I dont care....Big businesses should not be paying the taxes of the town's people, unless there are services the town is providing that cost them.     School taxes---please.    If they have to have more police because of GP, Ok, but then one would also argue how much money comes to the town becuase of travelers.     Just like Johnsburg finds a way to keep increasing property taxes, but gives homestead waivers and waivers to seniors....effectively simply raising taxes on second home owners.  

All that said, I am boardering on the political so I better stop.     Hope GP gets their loan reworked.    I have confidence in Chuckie.    

Wells Fargo just settled with Baltimore City who strong armed them into court.   145 Million dollars to polititions who will divvy up the money to their pet projects under some fake terms on housing.  God forbid Wells Fargo loaned money at higher interest rates to people who lied, did not read etc to purchase homes before the market dropped.   Which before the market dropped congress was accusing the big mtg warehouses of redlining and exlcuding the poor.   Maybe GP should sue their lender for fraud too.    "You should have known not to invest in a ski area hotel, you took advantage of us"

if they go bankrupt anyone that had paid for a seasons pass for this upcoming season will be a low ranking creditor of the old operation and not a pass holder for whom ever comes in a picks up the pieces at auction

you may want to file a claim with your credit card company but I'm not sure that will work

On one of the TV newscasts, they were talking to a man who they said was the General Manager of Greek Peak Ski Resort, and he said that IF Greek Peak files for Bankruptcy Reorganization that when they reopen this coming winter they will accept those seasons passes already bought band paid for.

Customer deposits receive priority treatment in bankruptcy proceedings - assuming there are assets to be administered.  I didn't read this thread, what flavor of bankruptcy, 11 or 7?  Bankruptcy's not necessarily a bad thing.  Chapter 11s can sometimes be just what was needed.  Restructure some long term secured debt, get out of some crappy leases and contracts and emerge far healthier - albeit often under different ownership and management.  We'll see.  Campy and the boyz should be alright.

Doesn't this line potentially mean, We need a no fee loan to float our BS summer massage program and dog of a restaurant hotel before we make it to next ski season (and start making money again):

Schumer: Greek Peak Needs Immediate Lift To Make It To Next Ski Season

The rest of the article reads: We are holding these jobs hostage because it's not fair we don't make enough money to cover our asses in the summer even though we built a stupid resort hotel.

It's like when Steinbrenner used to threaten to move to Jersey, except they can't move the ski area. They need to knock off the stunts and get their ducks in a row, or the govt should whip them into shape and make them sell if they can't make good on a fair loan.

Greek Peak or Greek Theater, that's what I want to know.

Yesterday i played golf with a buddy of mine who's on the board @ GP....100% sure we'll be skiing and riding @ GP this winter ..i believe him

campgottagopee wrote

Yesterday i played golf with a buddy of mine who's on the board @ GP....100% sure we'll be skiing and riding @ GP this winter ..i believe him

 woot

Noah John wrote

Customer deposits receive priority treatment in bankruptcy proceedings - assuming there are assets to be administered.  I didn't read this thread, what flavor of bankruptcy, 11 or 7?  Bankruptcy's not necessarily a bad thing.  Chapter 11s can sometimes be just what was needed.  Restructure some long term secured debt, get out of some crappy leases and contracts and emerge far healthier - albeit often under different ownership and management.  We'll see.  Campy and the boyz should be alright.

MY issue with all of this isn't GP going BK (i think it may happen and in the end be a good thing). I took issue with a few things: 1. GP blaming a bad snow fall year for all their problems. 2. Building (and not paying all their contractors which in turn hurt some locals...BAD) this "project" when everyone around here knew this would happen. 3.Dangling the proverbial carrot infront of the skier that this project would generate $$$$$ to put back into the hill. And finally #4.....I bought into the dangling carrot

campgottagopee wrote

Noah John wrote

Customer deposits receive priority treatment in bankruptcy proceedings - assuming there are assets to be administered.  I didn't read this thread, what flavor of bankruptcy, 11 or 7?  Bankruptcy's not necessarily a bad thing.  Chapter 11s can sometimes be just what was needed.  Restructure some long term secured debt, get out of some crappy leases and contracts and emerge far healthier - albeit often under different ownership and management.  We'll see.  Campy and the boyz should be alright.

MY issue with all of this isn't GP going BK (i think it may happen and in the end be a good thing). I took issue with a few things: 1. GP blaming a bad snow fall year for all their problems. 2. Building (and not paying all their contractors which in turn hurt some locals...BAD) this "project" when everyone around here knew this would happen. 3.Dangling the proverbial carrot infront of the skier that this project would generate $$$$$ to put back into the hill. And finally #4.....I bought into the dangling carrot

Right on Camp, we've been promised a new lift for the last three years I'm aware of. I hope they get bailed out so I don't loose the six bills I spent for my and my son's season's passes this year, but I wouldn't be upset if they end up going belly up and end up with someone who would concentrate on the ski operations buying the place. Virgil NY a destination resort?...really?

as much as i'd like to see a new (=faster) lift i think u guys are way off base thinking that should be first priority - iv'e been skiing greek on weekends and holidays for the last 7 years and have NEVER seen a lift line more than a few minutes long. new lifts are about capacity and it aint needed (for capacity any way ) a NEW fixed grip quad was ordered but is is caught up in this financing mess. some additional snowmaking was added in the last few years but before that big al didn't do shit on that mountain for thirty years...

if i had to say there was a lack of key on-mountain improvement i'd say it was in the terrain park. they have the solid ski school but the families with kids theyre trying to attract want a decent park. that could be done with minimal investment and would pay huge dividends from a skier experience and marketing standpoint...

Cornhead wrote

 Virgil NY a destination resort?...really?

uhhh... ever been to the poconos?

Agree, I don't mind the current lifts (except 1A...that thing can blow up as far as I'm concerned), lines are minimal and, imo, u can always find one that is empty. Terrain (soooo much potential) and snowmaking is where it's at for me, BUT, they have promised new lifts for years now with nothing. Classic case of over promise and under deliver.

I also wouldn't mind if the 1-a lift sunk into a swamp as it's just way to slow and more importantly unreliable.  Last year was a tough snow year for ALL areas however many of those areas got the job done way better than GP.  We live just about mid way between GP and Elk which both had a similar weather and snow fall.   Elk had much better ski conditions for the entire season compared to the huge amount of "thin and bare" cover that GP had.  When I brought this up to some of the management the reply I got was to blame it on weather and location differences.  The same manager also stated that Elk had a more modern snow making system and that they (GP) were doing as good as they could given the tough winter.  Sorry but given what GP charges there's not really a good excuse for running things poorly.  If they want more skiers they need to sort out the snow making system a bit better and do some basic work on the area.  Run the 1 lift and keep 1-a only for busy times, thin out the brush on the sides of several trails, paint some of the lifts, blow snow once it's cold enough in order to lay down a decent base,  CLEAN THE FREAKING LODGE!   The place does have quite a bit of potential but the current regime seems to just want to suck the life out of the place.

parris wrote

I also wouldn't mind if the 1-a lift sunk into a swamp as it's just way to slow and more importantly unreliable.  Last year was a tough snow year for ALL areas however many of those areas got the job done way better than GP.  We live just about mid way between GP and Elk which both had a similar weather and snow fall.   Elk had much better ski conditions for the entire season compared to the huge amount of "thin and bare" cover that GP had.  When I brought this up to some of the management the reply I got was to blame it on weather and location differences.  The same manager also stated that Elk had a more modern snow making system and that they (GP) were doing as good as they could given the tough winter.  Sorry but given what GP charges there's not really a good excuse forward running things poorly.  If they want more skiers they need to sort out the snow making system a bit better and do some basic work on the area.  Run the 1 lift and keep 1-a only for busy times, thin out the brush on the sides of several trails, paint some of the lifts, blow snow once it's cold enough in order to lay down a decent base,  CLEAN THE FREAKING LODGE!   The place does have quite a bit of potential but the current regime seems to just want to suck the life out of the place.

Welcome to the forum, I too live midway between Greek and Elk, Conklin. I would love to alternate season passes between the two, but can't justify the more than double cost of a season's pass to Elk. Funny that the day rate is higher at Greek. I have to laugh at the little ads for Hope Lake Lodge on the lift towers, the hoyty toyty image they portray while being attached to a run down pos lift is hillarious. I think management has put the cart before the horse by not improving the ski operations before all of this developement, it is a ski resort after all, or was. Jay Peak it ain't, I don't care too much for their changes either, but at least the mountain is still the same. They make sure to promote skiing as the base of their operations too. Greek's attitude seens to be, "Come to the great Hope Lake Lodge, oh, btw you can ski in the Winter if you care to."