Resorts Commitment to Spring?

Has it changed?

I may talk a lot about Whiteface in my probably-largely-unjustified mini-rant here, but it's not just them.  As Hunter says, they have a rediculous amount of snow right now, yet this weekend is the last.  People will be hiking on Hunter into May.  Maybe I'm in my 'candy bars were a nickel' years, I don't know.....but I seem to recall years past at Whiteface where the coverage was good and I could plan a weekend trip in late April with the knowledge that the mountain would be open.  Years when good snow meant skiing the Slides on April 20, Easter activities on the mountain that people could plan for a week or two in advance, and lifts that would turn until 4:30.  This year, with great coverage and the mountain frozen up tight today, we can't get more of a commitment than....'we are still open 7 days a week' and 'chairs will run as long as conditions permit'.  Well what the h-e-double hockey sticks does THAT mean?  Along with that, when you call and email they won't commit to anything even remotely specific, but tell you to check the website (which has the useless info above) and state that if the point comes that they don't make any money by staying open they will close (regardless of conditions).  Psst, they aren't making any money if the majority of the skiers who show up are pass holders.....

I understand that a ski resort is a business, and must be run like one.  Lots of mountains, particularly out west, close with great conditions on the hill due to the economics of running a business, and that is ok.  However, each mountain has to choose to commit to spring or not, I believe.  This middle ground of wishy-washy maybe we will be open stuff doesn't help anybody.  WF will only stay open if they can make money, but they will only make money if they attract customers, and to attract those customers you have to commit to being open.  It's shit or get off the pot time.

So, back to my query....do you think mountains were more committed to spring operations in the past than they are today?  Has the badge of honor of being the latest to operate lost all it's value?  WF could wear that badge easily this year....if it still meant anything, which it may.  Are more people likely to buy season passes to a mountain that has, year in and year out, committed to late season operations?

I agree,  in the Spring I need more than a week to make plans with my kids other sports etc.     I think they can play wishy washy as you say during week days, but they can be pretty sure about conditions two weeks out.     Unless a major rain is called for, but us spring skiers would know to look out for that kind of thing and understand if they did close earlier than their committment.    

Skidds wrote

Has it changed?

I don't know.....but I seem to recall years past at Whiteface where the coverage was good and I could plan a weekend trip in late April with the knowledge that the mountain would be open.  Years when good snow meant skiing the Slides on April 20, Easter activities on the mountain that people could plan for a week or two in advance, and lifts that would turn until 4:30.  

I guess you don't know...if things work out weather wise WF will approach a 6 month long season which would be unpresedented. Management has never been more commited to opening early (remember 2nd week in Nov.) and closing late then they are now.

Skidds wrote

I understand that a ski resort is a business, and must be run like one.

Your post suggests you don't

Skidds wrote

 Are more people likely to buy season passes to a mountain that has, year in and year out, committed to late season operations?

Lets say that weather permits WF to stay open until the first weekend in May, will that be late enough for you? Will you be there with about 299 other pass holders and 0 walk up ticket buyers? At what point should management decide to stop losing money by staying open. Money lost that could be put to good use next season. I get how you feel...I live for ski season and hate to see it end. I just think that questioning WF's commentment to a long season is baseless.

I:)skiing wrote

 but they can be pretty sure about conditions two weeks out.    

In 2 weeks it could be in the 80's. There could be thunder storms. So how can they be sure of conditions?

White people problems:

"The ski resort I like to frequent has not adequately disclosed its plans for the upcoming weeks"

Life must be pretty easy for you when you're complaining about stuff like that . . .

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

  Will you be there with about 299 other pass holders and 0 walk up ticket buyers? At what point should management decide to stop losing money by staying open. Money lost that could be put to good use next season.  

This is how I feel about my hill closing. As a pass holder I'm a little ticked that they aren't still open, but I understand that by staying open they will lose money and that's not what good biz people do. Maybe if some of our pass holders weren't such trunk slammers maybe they could justify staying open a little long, but that's just not the case.

Gore's commitment to Spring seems reasonable to me.  2 years ago they committed to a final 4 day weekend. It was hot as hell and after Thursday they couldn't move enough snow avoid a long walk to the Gondola so they killed it.

The other thing with ORDA hills... the decision to close may not be made "on mountain" if you know what I mean.

Seems like Jay and The Loaf have upped their commitment to spring and it seems that The Beast is back.

Ultimately I'm with HPD. Hate to see the season end, but I'll accept it when it does.

campgottagopee wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

  Will you be there with about 299 other pass holders and 0 walk up ticket buyers? At what point should management decide to stop losing money by staying open. Money lost that could be put to good use next season.  

This is how I feel about my hill closing. As a pass holder I'm a little ticked that they aren't still open, but I understand that by staying open they will lose money and that's not what good biz people do. Maybe if some of our pass holders weren't such trunk slammers maybe they could justify staying open a little long, but that's just not the case.

+1

This past Sunday at Whiteface was a perfect example. It was an absolutely beautiful day. It was a Super Sunday, with discounted lift tickets, Pond Skimming, live music and almost the entire mountain open (with the exception of the glades & the Slides), and yet the place was empty. Many of those who were there, were pass-holders. There's a point in the year when people just don't come out any more, and as a business, the economic realities have to come into play, as much as we may not like it.

So touchy....but I guess my post came out a little more 'judge-y' than I intended.  Sorry.  HPD, I'm not just "questioning" WF's commitment, I'm asking about the ski industry as a whole.  WF is just the most relevant experience I have to relate my "question".  I do realize we are talking about a business being run, and I'd be perfectly fine (disappointed, but fine with the business decision) if WF, like other mountains, said they were closing after this weekend.  As for the business end of things, you seem to gloss over my point that the best way for them to actually have any shot at making any money between now and May is to give customers a reason to book a trip.   I guess you don't think that kind of feedback from a loyal 30 year customer is of any value?  Didn't intend for this to be overly critical of WF, but right now they aren't really giving anyone a reason to book a non-refundable hotel reservation.  As for knowing.....they know with 99.99% certainty that there will not be 80 (or even 70) degree temps or a significant wash out in the next 10 days.  As you well know, if things go well they are likely to stay open in some capacity into May.  Given that likelihood, and forecast capabilities for the next 10 days, why not commit to being open Easter weekend?  We've booked our trip already, but there are probably people on the fence, people who could make them money, who would book if they did commit.  WF is missing some of what little business opportunity their is, IMHO.

There probably isn't enough money to be made any more, and they probably should just call it, and I respect that they haven't pulled the plug, but you can't just be a little bit pregnant.  If you are going to stay open, stay OPEN, commit as best you can, and give people a reason to book.  That would be more likely to help the bottom line if they stay open than holding back on information regarding what they would like to do if the weather cooperates.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Skidds wrote

Has it changed?

I don't know.....but I seem to recall years past at Whiteface where the coverage was good and I could plan a weekend trip in late April with the knowledge that the mountain would be open.  Years when good snow meant skiing the Slides on April 20, Easter activities on the mountain that people could plan for a week or two in advance, and lifts that would turn until 4:30.  

I guess you don't know...if things work out weather wise WF will approach a 6 month long season which would be unpresedented. Management has never been more commited to opening early (remember 2nd week in Nov.) and closing late then they are now.

Skidds wrote

I understand that a ski resort is a business, and must be run like one.

Your post suggests you don't

Skidds wrote

 Are more people likely to buy season passes to a mountain that has, year in and year out, committed to late season operations?

Lets say that weather permits WF to stay open until the first weekend in May, will that be late enough for you? Will you be there with about 299 other pass holders and 0 walk up ticket buyers? At what point should management decide to stop losing money by staying open. Money lost that could be put to good use next season. I get how you feel...I live for ski season and hate to see it end. I just think that questioning WF's commentment to a long season is baseless.

HPD FTW!

Face4Me wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

  Will you be there with about 299 other pass holders and 0 walk up ticket buyers? At what point should management decide to stop losing money by staying open. Money lost that could be put to good use next season.  

This is how I feel about my hill closing. As a pass holder I'm a little ticked that they aren't still open, but I understand that by staying open they will lose money and that's not what good biz people do. Maybe if some of our pass holders weren't such trunk slammers maybe they could justify staying open a little long, but that's just not the case.

+1

This past Sunday at Whiteface was a perfect example. It was an absolutely beautiful day. It was a Super Sunday, with discounted lift tickets, Pond Skimming, live music and almost the entire mountain open (with the exception of the glades & the Slides), and yet the place was empty. Many of those who were there, were pass-holders. There's a point in the year when people just don't come out any more, and as a business, the economic realities have to come into play, as much as we may not like it.

Actually there was a good amount of people on Sunday for April. Like Face said, it was a perfect day and people came out. If WF could keep doing those numbers it would help the cause for staying open until the last patch of snow melts. So anyway if folks want it to stay open longer they need to show up now.

Sunday was a top 10 for me. I love me some perfect spring skiing. Not just the corn snow, but the beautiful sunshine and fun vibe that went along with Sunday.

Skidds wrote

   As for knowing.....they know with 99.99% certainty that there will not be 80 (or even 70) degree temps or a significant wash out in the next 10 days.  

 

Not sure where you live but around here (CNY) that statement is soooooooo far from true.

Yes, you may very well hit the 70s next week, but things are a little cooler in the ADK high peaks.

My statement had nothing to do with temperature.

I'm pretty familiar w/ the Dacks

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

So anyway if people want it to stay open longer.....

Drifter, I guess you are somewhat missing the poorly made point in all my baseless complaining.  People have been coming because there have been not only great snow conditions and nice spring days, but also a lack of any doubt that the mountain would be open.  As much as I guess I'm a spoiled, out of touch white dude (yeah MC, take a long jump turn off a short pier) I'm apparently not the only one.  There were a fair amount of people this past weekend because they could make plans to come.  Now we are on the edge of the shoulder season, and it's not as easy to make plans to come because we don't know what the operational goal is.  Us losers who have nothing better to worry about but want to support the local economies of our upstate bretheran are kinda stuck. Without the ability to plan ahead, people won't, and numbers that are shrinking as people hit the links will only get even smaller.  On the other hand, put it out there now that the mountain will be open through Easter (even if just the weekend), maybe throw in a skiing Easter egg hunt and some other activities.....I suspect a few more people will book their hotel rooms and make the trip, and numbers like last weekend may be possible.

campgottagopee wrote

My statement had nothing to do with temperature.

I'm pretty familiar w/ the Dacks

Yeah, I figured, but I'm still missing your CNY point.  Are you trying to say you see a washout coming?

Skidds wrote

On the other hand, put it out there now that the mountain will be open through Easter (even if just the weekend), maybe throw in a skiing Easter egg hunt and some other activities.....I suspect a few more people will book their hotel rooms and make the trip, and numbers like last weekend may be possible.

Skidds, maybe you should go to Gore Easter weekend.  I spoke with the General Manager (Mike Pratt) this past Saturday and he told me the next two weekends (Apr 12/13 and Apr 19/20) were "no brainers."  You can take that as a 99.99% certainty that Gore will be open.  Go ahead and book your weekend, the mountain will be open.  If it looks like the weather will suck and you decide to bail, just about all motels have a 24-hour cancellation policy.

Skidds wrote

campgottagopee wrote

My statement had nothing to do with temperature.

I'm pretty familiar w/ the Dacks

Yeah, I figured, but I'm still missing your CNY point.  Are you trying to say you see a washout coming?

No, I'm just saying that prediciting the weather for a 10 day window  to 99.99% certainty is crazy...that is all

mattchuck2 wrote

White people problems:

"The ski resort I like to frequent has not adequately disclosed its plans for the upcoming weeks"

Life must be pretty easy for you when you're complaining about stuff like that . . .

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