Riding with a Helmet

Harvey wrote

I looked it up and I still don't get it.

Bottom line I see Heuristics as the propensity to, potentially, do dumb shit even thought we are experienced and educated enough not to.

It’s the short cuts and rules of thumb we are somewhat hardwired to use to do things without really thinking about them.

It’s thinking you are familiar enough with something, perhaps  smart enough about it, all kind of subconsciously, to take an action without thinking it through and doing all the work required to arrive at a well reasoned solution.

Sort of.....

So what you're saying is shit happens

campgottagopee wrote

So what you're saying is shit happens

Not necessarily......because that implies we don’t have control over what happens.  In certain situations we have to work to avoid heuristic traps.  Doing so can prevent the shit from happening.

I guess touching the a wall that has "wet paint" sign on it and being surprised you have paint on your hand..

Heuristic traps are short cuts in the thinking process based on previous experiences and rewards that aren’t necessarily factual. We all use them every day.

Humans are funny as hell and it’s amazing how we can create a false reality when we desire something,
basically ignoring red flags. Understanding this stuff is essential imo for safe back country travel. My most memorable day last season was one where I caught myself almost falling into a hueristic trap. I had an objective but had to back away from it. Touring in avalanche terrain during storm cycles is a hell of a game!

Everything has a risk.

We all choose individually how to handle risks. Some people are scared to drive in the snow. Some people don't ski because they think it's too dangerous. Some people don't leave the house because they're scared of the world.

Most people take risks every day. I don't get on the internet and nitpick your moves that some consider "risky", yet you feel completely comfortable doing that with other people.

Strange.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

I don't get on the internet and nitpick your moves that some consider "risky", yet you feel completely comfortable doing that with other people.

Strange.

What’s strange is.......I’ve fully supported your prerogative NOT to wear a helmet all the time.   Heck, I AGREE with you, as I don’t wear a helmet all the time either.

Sorry if I’ve done that while acknowledging that wearing a helmet all the time can provide benefit, and is probably the prudent thing to do.

Defensive much?????

Your guilty conscious getting the best of you? You do live in upchuck ignorant bliss. Do you still use a pacifier?

Harvey wrote

I looked it up and I still don't get it.

A good read from last season

https://www.mountwashingtonavalanchecenter.org/the-pit-2/

I'm a little surprised that the PSIA hasn't required all members to wear helmets. These are the people teaching out in the public and should lead by example. Afterall the P stands for Professional.

Excellent point, camp. Hey MC, maybe think about the example you're setting for the kiddies.

Nah, it’s ok. No one wants to be like a ski instructor

I suspect he wears when instructing?

If that’s a requirement (makes sense that it would be) it would beg the question.....can his employer dictate how he rides/what he can do when he’s not on the fiel.....ummm, on the clock?

raisingarizona wrote

Nah, it’s ok. No one wants to be like a ski instructor

Another excellent point

nepa wrote

raisingarizona wrote

What a fun little zone! I wish we had something like that in our inbounds lift served terrain. It's hard to go way out into isolated back country and fuck around with technical steep lines knowing that a rescue is likely going to take a real long time. It's also sometimes impossible to really scope lines before committing to them too. Touring can be complicated.

As the late Jim Jack used to describe it.... Mission is like a mini-golfcourse... lot's large natural features that look Big, but are actually quite forgiving with very straightforward entries and exits.  You'd have a blast up here RA.

That kind of terrain is my jam man! Steep, rock features, shortish but explosive and fast with a nice safe, clean run out. I'm not into that really extreme ski stuff but more of a mini golfer.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

I'm hoping that I won't get drawn too deep into this thread, but I'll say that every situation requires the individual in that situation to make a choice.

Driving a car? I don't wear a helmet
Racing a car? I'd wear a helmet.

Skiing a normal day? I don't usually wear a helmet
Trying tricks in the park, skiing rowdy terrain, racing? I wear a helmet
Springtime BC session at a NELSAP area? No helmet
Springtime Tuckerman ravine session? Bring the helmet, wear it if snow gets hard or if I'm sending

Mountain biking? Always wear a helmet
Bike Path? Mostly don't wear a helmet
DH Mountain biking? Full face helmet, shin, knee, & elbow pads

Riding a horse? Never done it, but I'd wear a helmet
Rock climbing? Helmet
Bouldering? No helmet
Ice climbing? Helmet

It's a personal preference. Let people do what they want to do.

Is it too soon? If it's too soon we can circle back some time later but I'm sincerely interested in an honest deconstruction of your incident, MC. Did you have your brain bucket on? Did it come into play?  Has it changed your thinking any? Not in terms of telling other people what to do...  I mean, will it change your own behavior ? Is there a lesson to be learned?

No, I wasn't wearing a helmet, and, seeing as I didn't have any head injury and no concussion, it wouldn't have done anything unless it was a full face helmet. I don't see a lot of people wearing full face helmets around the mountain.

As I've said in my previous posts, helmets don't prevent all injuries, and acting as if they do it stupid.

We could wrap our entire bodies in bubble wrap to prevent almost all ski injuries. Hell, we could prevent all ski injuries by just not skiing. Everyone makes their own decision on what protective equipment they want to wear that strikes the right balance for them.

My advice for you is to continue to let people make their own decisions.

Obvi if you were skiing with proper bindings this facial incident would never had occurred.  

I didn't see MC go down.

But, I'm not sure that conclusion can be drawn as both of his skis had released and then he came in contact with one of them.

I had a thought after I saw his cut. At some point in the day Matt had his instructor coat (which seems pretty heavy duty) pulled up around his face, maybe that could have helped.

I was relatively close to this incident, and it really affected me. I wear a helmet and believe it has helped me. MC is my friend and I'd like it if he would wear one. But I accept his point about risk.

I take risks that aren't as obvious. I drive a lot and often in storms. I remember a few years ago timing my 3 am departure for Plattekill to coincide with the re-opening of the Thruway at 5am.  If I could get the time off I'd be driving in this storm. There is no thread that address that risk.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

No, I wasn't wearing a helmet, and, seeing as I didn't have any head injury and no concussion, it wouldn't have done anything unless it was a full face helmet. I don't see a lot of people wearing full face helmets around the mountain.

As I've said in my previous posts, helmets don't prevent all injuries, and acting as if they do it stupid.

We could wrap our entire bodies in bubble wrap to prevent almost all ski injuries. Hell, we could prevent all ski injuries by just not skiing. Everyone makes their own decision on what protective equipment they want to wear that strikes the right balance for them.

My advice for you is to continue to let people make their own decisions.

100%. If that wasn't true, there wouldn't be concussion issues in football, hockey or lacrosse.

That being said, I finally found a helmet that fits my giant head. I also don't wear it all the time. I got it for my trip to BC last month. It definitely took some getting used to.

I don't think a helmet would've prevented the concussion I got a few years ago on an icy Gore, although it MAY have lessened the effects.

Also, I'm still coming to terms with the fact that its not the helmet that makes my head look big.