Scarpa T2x vs new T1, T2 Eco

I didn't take offense either. Don't feel bad, we're just having a pleasant discussion. And you're right, the advent of lift served Tele skiing definitely drove a lot of changes.

I found this picture today while researching something else:



Pretty amazing, right?

Article here:

http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/at_article_big/at_article_big.html

Thanks for sharing. Interesting article and great equipment history lesson.

Louis Dawson wrote

but after seeing it all, I'm certain that AT gear is still the most fun, efficient, safest, and best tool for glisse alpinism backcountry skiing.

I definitely disagree with the notion that AT is most fun. But randonee definitely wins when it comes to safety and efficiency. I think AT skiers have been winning Randonee Rally Races for years now.  

I would love to try some of those Vorlage bindings.

Louis Dawson wrote

(But things change -- oh how they change. Though early free-heelers of the 1970s extolled the manly virtues of skiing on minimalist gear and "playing by different rules," and "having more fun than anyone else," telemark gear has now become a de-tuned version of AT gear, leaving toothpick skis and meager boots as distant, sometimes fond memories. Now, with huge plastic "telemark" boots locked to modern fat skis by compression springs that could suspend the space shuttle and cables that could tow a monster truck, you have nothing less than an AT setup. For proof, witness the number of free-heel skiers who make parallel turns.)

This is the heart of the debate. To be honest I like the idea of being able to make powerful parallel turns AND telemark turns. As I get older and not in the same physical shape I once was, I realize how much work tele turns are. Some days I ski, I probably don't even make a single tele turn. I'm ok with this and it sounds like you guys are too, but the author is right: Something is lost in this evolution. Somebody needs to carry the torch of those 1970s free-heelers. I am not saying I can or even want to, but I think at least every tele skier should try a light and flexible touring set up here and there if only to keep you honest. Plus it's fun.

By the way, Harvey, a newer version of your  Karhu XCD GT set up is exactly what I am looking to get my hands on - a light east coast bc tour set up with just enough power to have some fun on moderate slopes in the Cats and ADKs.

I am thinking:
Madshus Annum 185
Spike Blade
Scarpa T3 or T4s

Any thoughts? I am not sure which Burnt Mt. binding to go with. They are expensive and I've heard mixed reviews, but they still seem very cool to me.

Maybe I should have started a new thread...

ck1 wrote

By the way, Harvey, a newer version of your  Karhu XCD GT set up is exactly what I am looking to get my hands on...

I am thinking:
Madshus Annum 185
Spike Blade
Scarpa T3 or T4s

Any thoughts? I am not sure which Burnt Mt. binding to go with...

Maybe start a new thread, but that seems like a setup that everyone who tools around in the woods needs. My version is a Rossignol BC110 and the Rottefella 3 pin binding (with yet to be purchased T4s). SBR has opinions on the Burnt Mountain Lite Dogs (which are probably all the binding you would want). I don't know if he's following this thread, though.

In my mind mention of the Karhu XCD GT is appropriate in any and all threads.

I think they actually made a more modern version of the GT that was pretty sweet. Shorter, wider, more curvy.

The pair I have now was bought on closeout from Karhu... one of the last classic GTs ever sold by the company, for $100. In addition that day I bought TWO count em 2 pairs of MERRILL DOUBLES in my size for $100 each.  The second pair is still in the plastic.

Now THAT is insane.

I agree I think something like the T4 would be awesome.

Can you move through the woods on T4s harvesting small glisse moments on those big waxless skis Shaman has?

(Sorry I forget, Chargers?)

Those Merrell doubles, the new ones, are stiffer than T-4's, so I say yes. But, I use my TX-Pro's all the time, lift service, bc, as well as just bushwacking. I have a long flat tour setup of Fischer Rebounds with NNNBC bindings, and Alpina tele-light boots, but I find myself using them less and less each year, probably due more for lack of time.
My old friend Michael Frenette (who grew up raging at Big Tupper in the 70's) from Tupper Lake, skied on Merrell doubles for years. I remember skiing with him one day when I was learning to tele, and he was making a tele turn, a parallel turn, half tele, para tele. etc., so I said to him, were those tele turns or parallel? His response was response was, "i don't know I was just skiing".
I think that says it all, just ski

Darkside Shaman wrote

I think that says it all, just ski

Agree 100%.

Just out of curiosity, these are the TX-Pros you use?

Darkside Shaman wrote

 he was making a tele turn, a parallel turn, half tele, para tele. etc., so I said to him, were those tele turns or parallel? His response was response was, "i don't know I was just skiing".
I think that says it all, just ski

+1, thats what i've been saying and doing for awhile .
i like the freedom to choose the turn that fits the need , charlies flat ski woods turn , high speed gs, jumptele zipper on rumor,...i just like the options.

Ck1 I have the older bumble bee model I got a great deal on them new this summer. I have used them on piste, and last week got in a few tours with them, and I have also used them a few times with my dynafiddle setup. So far so good
Should also mention, that I switched from the NTN Freeride to the Freedoms this year, and I like them much better on and off piste.

Harvey wrote

In my mind mention of the Karhu XCD GT is appropriate in any and all threads.

I think they actually made a more modern version of the GT that was pretty sweet. Shorter, wider, more curvy.

The pair I have now was bought on closeout from Karhu... one of the last classic GTs ever sold by the company, for $100. In addition that day I bought TWO count em 2 pairs of MERRILL DOUBLES in my size for $100 each.  The second pair is still in the plastic.

Now THAT is insane.

I agree I think something like the T4 would be awesome.

Can you move through the woods on T4s harvesting small glisse moments on those big waxless skis Shaman has?

(Sorry I forget, Chargers?)

Time to chime in...  

31 years of freeheel experience - from backwoods schwacking to world championship tele racing - has left one constant in my ever changing and evolving (devolving?) mind.. Boots are what matter.  Period.  You'll have way more fun and success with a boot that is "bigger".   What I mean is you should always try use a bigger boot than what you think you need for a given ski.  

Of course I choose more often than not to contradict myself... So take my advice with a fair amount of skepticism .  

Today I went for a woods ski on my new Voile Chargers..driven by a pair of modded Garmont Excursions.. Reason, and the collective opinion of the masses say that the Excursions and a 114mm waisted ski are not a wise match..
Guess what.  

FKNA.  I'm still smiling.  Go figure.  (I'll save the gushing about the Chargers for another thread...)

Anyways, my 2 cents.

TD

Telemark Dave wrote

Today I went for a woods ski on my new Voile Chargers..driven by a pair of modded Garmont Excursions.. Reason, and the collective opinion of the masses say that the Excursions and a 114mm waisted ski are not a wise match..
Guess what.  

FKNA.  I'm still smiling.  Go figure.

I suspected this might be the case.  

They are sweet aren't they TD!

ck1 wrote

By the way, Harvey, a newer version of your  Karhu XCD GT set up is exactly what I am looking to get my hands on - a light east coast bc tour set up with just enough power to have some fun on moderate slopes in the Cats and ADKs.

I am thinking:
Madshus Annum 185
Spike Blade
Scarpa T3 or T4s

Any thoughts? I am not sure which Burnt Mt. binding to go with. They are expensive and I've heard mixed reviews, but they still seem very cool to me.

Maybe I should have started a new thread...

In the absence of a new thread, I will contribute to the drift. IMHO, the Spike Blade would be overkill for the Annums. I have the Lite Spike (AKA Lite Dogz) mounted on a pair of Fischer S-Bound 112s, very similar dimension and ski to the Annum. I also have the "optional quick attach heel," which I rarely use. Though if I skied somewhere with longer uphill approaches, I would probably use the heels more, to benefit from the free pivot. The Lite Spike is very solid and gives more than enough control.

Getting back to the boot topic, I agree with TD. Boots are everything. I ski the above lightweight setup with a pretty burly (but very light) boot, four-buckle Crispi XAs. I remove the power strap and leave them in walk mode when touring.

Telemark Dave wrote

 

31 years of freeheel experience - from backwoods schwacking to world championship tele racing -  

I had no clue that there was such a thing as World Championship Tele Racing so I googled it ---- that's some bad ass shit --- good for you TD

freeheeln wrote

Darkside Shaman wrote

 he was making a tele turn, a parallel turn, half tele, para tele. etc., so I said to him, were those tele turns or parallel? His response was response was, "i don't know I was just skiing".
I think that says it all, just ski

+1, thats what i've been saying and doing for awhile .
i like the freedom to choose the turn that fits the need , charlies flat ski woods turn , high speed gs, jumptele zipper on rumor,...i just like the options.

Yep, it's all just skiing.  

ck1 wrote

I think at least every tele skier should try a light and flexible touring set up here and there if only to keep you honest. Plus it's fun.

ck1 wrote

By the way, Harvey, a newer version of your  Karhu XCD GT set up is exactly what I am looking to get my hands on - a light east coast bc tour set up with just enough power to have some fun on moderate slopes in the Cats and ADKs.

I am thinking:
Madshus Annum 185

I thought that I wanted the Annums (and I still kinda want a pair), but bought a pair of the Epochs last year for my out-the-back-door tours.  It's rolling terrain and the Annum would have sacrificed some glide and camber.  Man are they fun.  The 99mm shovel floats nicely in soft snow, they are very turny with 30mm of sidecut, and Madshus seems to have really perfected the fishscale pattern.  Went out twice yesterday on 1+ hour tours, once in the early afternoon and once at night with the headlamp, both times with my wife.  She's got 6 or 8 year old Karhu XCD GT's and they look like straight, skinny toothpicks next to my Epochs.  Unfortunately now she wants a pair.  The Epochs are ideal for terrain like Siamese Ponds, Raymond Brook, Avalanche Pass.  Sportier routes than that I'll bring my big boards (K2 Sideshows) and T1's, or eventually fill in the quiver with Annums and T3's.  

campgottagopee wrote

Telemark Dave wrote

 

31 years of freeheel experience - from backwoods schwacking to world championship tele racing -  

I had no clue that there was such a thing as World Championship Tele Racing so I googled it ---- that's some bad ass shit --- good for you TD

Thanks Camp... It was 20 + years ago though... (It was badass then ) .. Canadian National Team from '90 to '92.  
Now I'm content to go for a ski tour in my back woods.  No regrets though.. It was the right thing to do at the time.    

TD

While I got sidetracked with those (AWESOME) T4S I bought, bringing myself into the modern era of waxless bc...

This problem has not been solved, and now my T2s are truly disintegrating. Got to do something, thought I could wait until next season.

But now it seems I have dreams of Tux.  I'd take my old crappy boots to Kmart and risk catastrophic failure, but Tux feels like a different game. Farther drive for sure and greater consequences associated with gear failure.

I'm thinking ECO.



EDIT: Just did some online shopping and there is no size selection.  Any ideas on how to get a pair (mondo 27.5) welcome.

In my humble opinion this is THE boot to buy if you are sticking with duckbills. I have been trolling the internet for awhile looking for a good deal on these.

Here is a sizing chart from Scarpa:
http://www.scarpa.com/DownloadPdf?dataResourceId=SIZE_CHART

You might want to compare this chart to others and read some reviews as well because I have seen contradictory information (E.g. REI had a different sizing chart at one point I). I know EMS in SoHo used to carry these which was great because you could try them on, but I'm not sure that they do any more and I doubt they have ski stuff in stock this time of year.

ck1 wrote

In my humble opinion this is THE boot to buy if you are sticking with duckbills. I have been trolling the internet for awhile looking for a good deal on these.

The T2s?

Let me know what you find.

I'm finding decent prices in odd sizes but the only places with my size (27.5) want full price. $555. No bueno.

Found a pair of T2s in my size at Inside Edge, which is cool because that place really knows how to fit them.

Price isn't fantastic about 15% off full.