Scarpa T2x vs new T1, T2 Eco

Anybody have any experience with both boots?

I'm skiing on older red T2x:


Old T2x

They are pretty beat and rockered.

The "cheapest" thing for me to do it go to a T1. (It ain't cheap, especially at this time of year.)

Any one have experience with both boots?

Seems like it might be a pretty big jump in stiffness, angle, 4 buckle.  Wondering what anyone thinks about that.


Scarpa T1

Or... if you've skied the old T2x and the new ECO, how do they compare?


T2 Eco

Go big or go home!

Try them on. It's not the stiffness, or the buckles or whatever. What will bother you is the cuff height. If you're cool with that, then I see no reason not to go bigger (I'd imagine you'd keep your T2xs for backcountry stuff).

mattchuck2 wrote

Try them on. It's not the stiffness, or the buckles or whatever. What will bother you is the cuff height. If you're cool with that, then I see no reason not to go bigger (I'd imagine you'd keep your T2xs for backcountry stuff).

Awesome info MC thanks, really exactly what I was looking for.  (I got some thick calves too.)

Inside Edge... the T1s are like $699.

I need new skis too. Kinda choosing...

Which would matter more, new skis or new boots.

I was thinking boots because I had so much fun on those Worths (which are new). My thought was the T1 could drive them better on groomers.

Now with some ice skating in my future... I'm thinking maybe it's skis instead.

Will try the boots on regardless.

Harvey wrote

 

Which would matter more, new skis or new boots.

 

IMO, boots are WAY more imprtant than skis. If you're not transferring energy efficiently to your ski, no matter what ski, you wont get the performance you're looking for.

Fresh tune on the boards, new boots, then rip it!!

Darkside Shaman wrote

Go big or go home!

i've been in T1's since they came out. if you want to drive big sticks and run with the fast crowd....
besides you know what they say about guys that wear big boots,or is that guys with big feet?

Freeheeln... you on the new T1s?

Camp that is exactly what I was thinking... just had some major sticker shock on the boots.

How much do alpine boots cost?

Harvey wrote

Freeheeln... you on the new T1s?

don't think the the newest , but newer than the bumble bees ,Intuition liners

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DackerDan wrote

 so they work really well in walk mode and are comfortable for hiking ?

they do make hiking to the lifts easier

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DackerDan wrote

Maybe I don't get it but why Tele on lift served? Tele (and AT for that matter) open up the other 99.99% of terrain.

Are you being serious? Or just trolling? You're a patroller and you ask this? You think people don't want to work on their Tele technique before going into the backcountry? Or you think that people should just alpine all the time, even though they might only have Tele gear? Gore has a ton of flat spots and you're asking why people want to lift their heel?

Jesus, maybe you should think for a couple of seconds before asking questions. Come on, man.

Dan I got to admit I was thinking you were kidding too.

If you are serious...

DackerDan wrote

Maybe I don't get it but why Tele on lift served? Tele (and AT for that matter) open up the other 99.99% of terrain.

...it's fun.  It's what I do. It's the gear I own.  Every year I can ski for "free" gear wise, or I can replace all my gear with alpine, and to some extent, be a beginner again.  Just can't get myself to do it.

I ski 65% of my days at Gore and tele ROCKs at Gore.  It's perfect for it. Short vert, lots of trees and different lifts.

If Whiteface was my home mountain, I'd NEVER be able to ski with the rippers.

I can't truly ski with them now, but I usually show up at the lift after they've had a short break.

I guess if you see freeheel only as a way to access something your comment makes sense?  But if you love making a tele turns  then it's fun to make tons of them in one day off a lift.

Have you tele'd? What did you think?

Wait a second. Let's take a step back for a minute.

Harvey wrote

They are pretty beat and rockered.

What exactly do you mean by this? I guess I am not sure what a "rockered" tele boot is. I think as long as all buckles, power strap, and walk/ski lever are functioning, mostly everything else is aesthetic. Liners on the other hand are a separate issue.

I have a pair of T1 bumblebees that probably have about 350 days on them (90% lift/ 10% backcountry). They are definitely "beat" and the liners are so packed out that my feet slosh around in them. I have a nail holding the walk/ski bar in place, the vibram soles are slicks at this point, the power straps are pretty much useless... yet I am still uninspired by any "newer" telemark boot. I have tried on many different boots since and demoed some on the rare occasions that this is possible.

At some point in the last few years the T1 became what old T1 Race was and the T2 became what the old T1s were, so basically you are now skiing a boot with approximately equivalent stiffness to the original T1s. In my humble opinion, this is plenty stiff. Bigger, stiffer boots will help you drive a fatter ski in crappier conditions, but there are a number of other factors to consider. The main issue, as I understand it, is the binding - In most 75mm bindings you will be losing a lot of that power on your back ski, compared to NTN. If you really want to charge hard on big skis, switch to NTN but then you are replacing your whole setup ($$$$).

I feel like I am in a similar situation as you Harvey in my thought process about upgrading tele gear right now and I agree with the other posters that having a comfortable powerful boot is more important than the ski, but have you thought of upgrading your existing boots?  

What I really want to do is find some new compatible thermofit liners but I am finding that difficult after a relatively quick internet search. I think having an experienced boot fitter add volume adjusters and a nicer footbed would go a long way to restoring my boots (and yours) at a fraction of the cost of new boots.

And, I love this idea for upgrading the power strap once the velcro becomes functionally useless:
http://www.earnyourturns.com/21460/tech-tip-making-a-buckled-power-strap/

Finally, I will end with saying that I took a Bumps and Trees course with Dickie Hall last year and it changed my thinking tremendously about skiing and gear. If any of you pinheads have the opportunity, go ski with this man! Anyway he encouraged us to ski a lot with our boots UNBUCKLED! I still (try) to ratchet my boots down on the steeps, but the point of me telling you this is that you should be careful of what you wish for. The elegance of a tele turn comes from softness, flexibility, and good technique. A bigger stiffer 4 buckle boot can be a crutch that helps you make aggressive alpine turns, but there may come a point where you ask if you are just an alpine skier with a broken binding.
 

Good luck with your decision and let us know what you decide.

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First of all, DackerDan, nobody cares that you don't Tele.

Secondly, among a bunch of people with "broken bindings" there are always going to be a bunch of Retro grouches (just like there are people who insist on Steel, rigid mountain bikes).

Personally, my Tele quiver is splitting in two: charging NTN setups, and lightweight kick and glide BC setups (once I buy T4s).

Reasons that I want a charging setup include: More comfortable boots (even my old T Races were more comfortable than any alpine boot), ability to lift heel on traverses, better ability to make alpine turns at the end of the day when my legs are tired (or make a quick alpine turn in the middle of a glade if I need to), the fact that alpine skiing is boring to me, I like working on Tele technique more than alpine technique, I like moving with my gear instead of against it, I like doing 360s in the park and then skiing away with Tele turns (impressing youthz), and I like being part of a culture that's slightly different than Alpine culture (especially alpine ski instructor culture).

Dickey Hall is obviously awesome, and the boots unbuckled drill is great for getting yourself centered (it's also something I'm not allowed to teach for liability reasons). I agree that too many people use their equipment as a crutch. But in arguing that we shouldn't use good equipment because people can mask technique defecencies is a little too far for me. I use oversized heads on my golf clubs and a full suspension 29er. Would I have better technique with forged irons and a rigid 26er? I guess I'd have to. Do I want to do that? No. Sometimes, one man's "crutch" is another man's key to enjoyment.

Well said MC2, it's all about putting a smile on our face 

ck1 wrote

Harvey wrote

They are pretty beat and rockered.

What exactly do you mean by this?

Long before rockered skis were invented the term rockered referred to tele boots that had been used to the point where the duckbill was bent up and the boots wouldn't touch the heel plate without significant pressure.  Mine sit about an inch above the heel plate when locked into the bindings with no skier in them.  It's not terrible in and of itself. I just wonder if a stiffer or new boot would help me ski better. That may sound like a guy who is relying on his gear too much (probably is), but on day one when I switched from old (blue) T2s to the red T2xs the difference was immediately noticeable.  I felt like I could edge much better on steep firm snow regardless of the type of turn I was doing.

ck1 wrote

At some point in the last few years the T1 became what old T1 Race was and the T2 became what the old T1s were, so basically you are now skiing a boot with approximately equivalent stiffness to the original T1s.

This is exactly what I am asking about.  I'm wondering (hoping really) that the ECO that replaced the T2x is a bit stiffer so I can get another jump in downhill performance without going to the forward lean and cuff height of the new T1.

If I could ski like Matt, I'd never for a single moment consider fixed heels.  Ski any terrain or snow condition at any time, ski with anyone (smoke em too) and enjoy the freedom of telemark gear choosing the best or most fun turn for the moment. Talk about win-win.

I ponder fixed heels primarily for social reasons.  The people I want to ski with, Matt, Ted, Shaman, Charlie, ML, etal are all super experts.  My ultra intermediate skillz combined with my addiction to picture taking leave me behind, slowing the group down.

If I only skied alone tele would be my gear of choice without question.

I feel bad about the crutch statement. My intention was certainly not to pick a fight or sound condescending. I love all forms of glisse and of telemark skiing and find new gear innovations exciting and interesting. My main point was that, outside of NTN, I have not really seen any major equipment improvement in telemark boots and bindings in the last ~10 years. Maybe I am wrong. I hope I am wrong.

Harvey wrote

Long before rockered skis were invented the term rockered referred to tele boots that had been used to the point where the duckbill was bent up and the boots wouldn't touch the heel plate without significant pressure.  Mine sit about an inch above the heel plate when locked into the bindings with no skier in them.  It's not terrible in and of itself. I just wonder if a stiffer or new boot would help me ski better.

I was always told that it is the ball of your foot on the toe plate that should steer and drive the ski, but we all know that plastic boots allow more of your leg and body to get involved. I do agree that a stiffer boot will allow you to engage the edges near the tip of your ski more easily. Too bad it is not easier to demo boots more easily, because then I think you would be able to recognize the difference really quickly.

mattchuck2 wrote

Personally, my Tele quiver is splitting in two: charging NTN setups, and lightweight kick and glide BC setups (once I buy T4s).

This probably makes a lot of sense. Philosophically though, this split seems disappointing to me as part of the appeal of telemark skiing is that it gets back to the roots of skiing -  a quiver of one. One set up for travel through the mountains, up and down. Mechanical lifts split skiing, which was once all telemark skiing, into cross country and downhill. Now that trend continues within telemark skiing itself. It makes sense from a practical standpoint though. You won't enjoy a big steep powder bowl on T4s or a rolling tour with giant fat skis.

I didn't take anything the wrong way.

My quiver of one for over ten years, was the Karhu XCD GT:





Still ski those skis too.

When I did hut-to-hut in Colorado the guides all skied with those root beer colored T2s. I think they were T2s.

They only used the bottom buckle and cut the top two buckles off the boot. This wasn't showing off, to them it was to them the best piece of gear to use to do the job of guiding.

Those guides were amazing fantastic people.