Slides craziness

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Danzilla wrote

Here's another suggestion.

How about letting people take responsibility for their own decisions and actions.

Well there is that too. Just throwing out an idea since there seems to be some level of thinking that the volume and /or level of skier should be limited in the slides. I skied the slides on Friday. There was a wide range of skill on display from total rippers who were bombing it to folks who were picking their way down. I didn't see anyone that was in way over their head. I did my homework and knew which slide routes were within my comfort zone and which were not. I didn't hit the slides on Saturday because I was a little hungover and felt that the snow on cloudspin was better anyway.

SJ what if you removed the "how well you skied it" portion and just make it mandatory that you ski cloudspin at least once? Based on the snow quality and number of people I saw on cloudspin I can guarantee everyone that was in the slides didn't take a run there first. Just thinking that it might be enough of a wake up call to those who might get in over their head.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Danzilla wrote

Here's another suggestion.

How about letting people take responsibility for their own decisions and actions.

That's the simplest solution, no doubt.

While I don't want to see anyone get hurt, it happens.  The biggest reason I care is that I don't want some chucklehead getting hurt in there and impacting the availability of the Slides to me.....

I agree the Upper Cloud was actually much better skiing by 11 am on Saturday than the Slides.  I was enjoying having it almost to myself while the feeding frenzy was on in the slides.

Others in the thread have referenced epidsoes where the Patroller at Slide in asked somebody to go take a lap on Skyward.  It's pretty easy for that Patroller to watch from the top.  

Any more formal program would probably need to run thru snow sports school in the form of a slides clinic.  Might be a good way for WF to profit on the evidently large demand for skiing the slides.  The clinic would include avy gear use for the day and presentation and practice on how to use it.  

Scotty seems to think making the Slides always Silver status would bring in more business.  This would be a way to allow skiers / boarders to experience them safely and improve thier skiing while at it.  If they like it then it's easier to invest in the avy gear and they have gained some experience and knowledge in the use of the gear.

A regular group lesson is $48 so say $12 to cover the Avy gear and for $60 bucks you are getting the intro to the slides half day experience including getting to cut the lift lines.  If you had your own Avy gear you would not need to do this of course.  Seems a reasonable balance between more slides access more often and safety.

The gates out west that you have to beep to go out don't lessen the requirement to not have beacons when the Avy Danger is low so why not go this route to more access?

Danzilla wrote

SJ what if you removed the "how well you skied it" portion and just make it mandatory that you ski cloudspin

then we'd have a bunch of jerrys ruining some of the best pow skiing on the mtn!  

I firmly believe the best management option for slides from a safety and marketing stand point is to have them open as often as possible but some effort must be required mentally and physically from those who want to ski them.

Beacons all the time.  People who own beacons or commit to buy/rent a beacon would most likely be experienced or willing to educate themselves about slide terrain and wild snow conditions.    

Beacons all the time gets rid of the negative public relations fall out of people not having gear.  If the skiing public is aware that beacons are required all the time then they'll bring them.  No whining or pleading w/ patrol at the top...

Beacons all the time raises the interest in WF as a ski destination in the east simply because WF lists terrain on the map as beacon all the time.  It will attract more serious skier/riders who then in turn will experience everything the Adirondacks offer.  Their will be more repeat customers.        

Beacon all the time is a non judgmental approach to limit volume which in turn limits chance for injury and keeps slide zone from getting over skied - extending quality time.

Beacons all the time would provide a boost to local shops and possibly increase attendance at avi training courses held at WF annually.

Now for the physical:  Its too damn easy to get into the slides.  If you are breathing hard using the present access, theirs a real good chance you may not be up for the descend.   See this all the time.  

Also the cluster that happens at the summit drop has already resulted in people getting whacked by the lift chair.  not good..  

On busy weekends and holidays the access should be moved down Riva Ridge away from the summit drop off.  It would be safer.  Their is an old outlaw trail that ascends a couple hundred feet and then traverses back to slide 1 above the old bull wheel and power thing.  Keep the existing access from summit drop off for ski patrol and other administrative personnel.

Mark the outlaw trail and post a wilderness sign stating that the climb is rigorous and the terrain wild.  Follow the trail, going above marked access will result in immediate closure of slide zone and an ass kicking from those following the rules.  

Making the climb slightly longer will further self limit.  Just last week a couple of people turned around on their own so adding a few 100 -150 vertical will again in a non judgmental way limit access.  Its a lot easier to tell someone its a strenuous climb rather than, you are a weak skier so you cant go...

Add access from Lookout.  Branch cut a traverse that is starting to appear on its own from the Whiteface Mountain hiking trail.  Access from Lookout side is often better given the prevailing winds drive snow onto the top of four and three and off the top of one and two - which messes the traverse up... Adding slide access from both sides increasing chances to open slides and further increasing the marketability of WF.  

Recognized slide rescue is higher level of skill and pay qualified ski patrol a higher rate of pay.  Build a serious sidecoutry patrol program which would attract more professional patrollers.  

And on slow week days open up administrative access at summit drop to public...  

ScottyJack wrote

Their is an old outlaw trail that ascends a couple hundred feet and then traverses back to slide 1 above the old bull wheel and power thing.

Is this the access point that I remember from, say 1998/1999 give or take timeframe, which was a little past the ski patrol shed on Riva sort of by the current location of where they have the one of the snowguns sitting there all the time, and then it climbed sort of straight up that steeper face on the upslope side of Riva Ridge?  This is where I remember entering the slides for the first time ever. Can't remember what year they moved the entrance to current location. Old entrance would set the traverse higher I remember, and the climb in was much more difficult.

That old climb was much more difficult.  It suites Scotty more than us old guys.  Not the safest either I remember people falling down that first part of the climb.

I like everything about Scottys idea except that part

I wouldn't mind a secondary side step point just past slide 2 to gain some more elevation for 2b.  

One of my ski buddies is in his 50s and he routinely smokes me on climbs. At the climbing gym, there's a middle aged Texan that warms up on climbs that are routinely at the edge of my ability. If you're going to have a chair and sell tickets, I don't like keeping access exclusive. If you want to rip out the lifts, I hope to be as fast as the older guys I know now. The beacon talk to me is just a silly barrier for an expensive toy that most lift-served skiers do not require, not even at WF.

I do agree with lots of stuff in this thread, I just wish this country could be more like Europe (in almost all ways), but especially with regards to access to terrain. You go, you better be careful. End of story.

I think people are missing the real point. The biggest problem is access via a very thin, slightly uphill traverse from the lift. Because  the access is SO easy the line in gets both uncontrollable and the time to get in  very long. Funny how this isn't a problem out west because of the need of avi gear.  I really do  think people need to be protected from themselves. On Sunday they closed the slides as nearly every person on the lift  went to go through the gate.

snoloco wrote

In bounds and on the map=not your private playground.  Amazing the entitlement mentality of who should/should not be allowed in there.  "No tourists, no kids, no one without a beacon even if it isn't necessary, no one who doesn't sit through a presentation, no non locals".  Absolutely absurd.  If someone is a good enough skier, has the proper equipment for the conditions, and wants to go in, they should be able to.  If you want private skiing, get a membership at the Yellowstone Club or go to the backcountry.  Something that is on the map and in bounds at a public ski resort means that other people are going to ski all the terrain that's on the map.

....says the MC proselytizer whose own mountain requires folks to pass a "park safety course" to get a "park pass" that then permits one to access the terrain parks...(not sure they still require that, but they did for a number of years anyway)

SIAWOL wrote

snoloco wrote

In bounds and on the map=not your private playground.  Amazing the entitlement mentality of who should/should not be allowed in there.  "No tourists, no kids, no one without a beacon even if it isn't necessary, no one who doesn't sit through a presentation, no non locals".  Absolutely absurd.  If someone is a good enough skier, has the proper equipment for the conditions, and wants to go in, they should be able to.  If you want private skiing, get a membership at the Yellowstone Club or go to the backcountry.  Something that is on the map and in bounds at a public ski resort means that other people are going to ski all the terrain that's on the map.

....says the MC proselytizer whose own mountain requires folks to pass a "park safety course" to get a "park pass" that then permits one to access the terrain parks...(not sure they still require that, but they did for a number of years anyway)

MC doesn't require park passes anymore.  There was never a "park safety course", all it ever was was 10 common sense multiple choice questions that one answered on a computer.  I personally think that it is necessary for the terrain parks because it is a danger for everyone if a few people don't know the rules.  Multiple times this year I almost landed on little kids who were sitting right in a blind spot on a jump landing.  That can't happen.  Still, park passes were always free, weren't too hard to get, and were a simple way to be sure that people knew the park rules.  

What I was objecting to was the criticisms of people from out of state or downstate coming to WF to ski The Slides.  I was also objecting to requiring beacons all the time and requiring a lengthy safety presentation.  That's overkill IMO.  I think that a "Slides Pass" similar to MC's former park pass would do them well.  Just make a 10 question quiz on avy skills and "Slides etiquette".  This way there would be less lawsuits as you took the quiz and knew the rules if you were in there, it would be free, and might keep some people out who lack the skills because they realize what they are getting themselves into.

ScottyJack wrote

Now for the physical:  Its too damn easy to get into the slides.  If you are breathing hard using the present access, theirs a real good chance you may not be up for the descend.   See this all the time.  

Also the cluster that happens at the summit drop has already resulted in people getting whacked by the lift chair.  not good..  

On busy weekends and holidays the access should be moved down Riva Ridge away from the summit drop off.  It would be safer.  Their is an old outlaw trail that ascends a couple hundred feet and then traverses back to slide 1 above the old bull wheel and power thing.  Keep the existing access from summit drop off for ski patrol and other administrative personnel.

Mark the outlaw trail and post a wilderness sign stating that the climb is rigorous and the terrain wild.  Follow the trail, going above marked access will result in immediate closure of slide zone and an ass kicking from those following the rules.  

Making the climb slightly longer will further self limit.  Just last week a couple of people turned around on their own so adding a few 100 -150 vertical will again in a non judgmental way limit access.  Its a lot easier to tell someone its a strenuous climb rather than, you are a weak skier so you cant go...

Make the hike longer?  I thought the direction most ski resorts were moving toward was more lift accessed challenging terrain.  If it were open enough, I'd put a surface lift up there.  Most difficult lift served skiing in the east by far then.

The beacon requirement seems a little dramatic. It looks like a lot of ski area terrain out west.

Loco, hiking is good. Hike to terrain is good. The Sugarloaf expansion imo is one of the coolest moves in a long time of eastern ski areas. Fat ass Americans need to walk more.

The only thing that I question with it tho is will the cost of maintaining all of that gladed terrain really make sense to ski area management after 3 or 4 drought seasons when that terrain is only open for a couple of weeks?

ScottyJack wrote

skunkape wrote

When you were a child people were horribly old fashioned.

Son, there's nothing horrible about old fashion.

Prolly the truest words ever spoken

campgottagopee wrote

ScottyJack wrote

skunkape wrote

When you were a child people were horribly old fashioned.

Son, there's nothing horrible about old fashion.

Prolly the truest words ever spoken

I started drinking old fashions lately. Gotta be careful with those bad boys.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

campgottagopee wrote

ScottyJack wrote

skunkape wrote

When you were a child people were horribly old fashioned.

Son, there's nothing horrible about old fashion.

Prolly the truest words ever spoken

I started drinking old fashions lately. Gotta be careful with those bad boys.

I hear that!! I like an old fashion from time to time, great after a big fat steak.

You like them with or without sugar?? I like mine with.

So far I've only had them with sugar. Next time I'll try without to compare.

If I had a choice I'd go back in time not forward!  I would ask if I could bring today's skis though.

Continuing the tangent (sorry), the Lounge at the Whiteface Lodge is a good place to explore old fashioneds.  They have a nice selection of bourbons/whiskeys, and will mix old fashioneds with different bitters.  There is a section on their drink menu dedicated to old fashioneds.

Comfy place to have a drink (or three).  They also have an apple infused bourbon that makes great sipping.

JTG4eva! wrote

Continuing the tangent (sorry), the Lounge at the Whiteface Lodge is a good place to explore old fashioneds.  They have a nice selection of bourbons/whiskeys, and will mix old fashioneds with different bitters.  There is a section on their drink menu dedicated to old fashioneds.

Comfy place to have a drink (or three).  They also have an apple infused bourbon that makes great sipping.

Post on the high quality Shirley Temples in the Mountain Creek Lodge dropping in 3, 2, 1...

i used to be a bartender, thought everyone who used to drink old fashions was dead. here is my 30 year old
recipe still fresh in my head

3 cherrys
1 slice orange
2-3 dashes bitters
splash club soda
muddle the crap out of that
pack with ice
fill with burbon.  

you can add a little sugar but burbon is sweet enough on its own
enjoy