Specifically, What is it you'd like to change?

Harvey wrote

So you don't think single payer has anything to do with it?

I think single payer will help, I also think that a national exchange (rather than a state wide exchange) as proposed by "he who cannot be named" will help greatly.

Not an expert on this myself but it was explained to me once that the govt controls drug prices in Canada. Drug companies go along with if to avoid losing business to generics and make up their margin by charging Americans more. Could be propaganda but it confirms my worldview so I didn't question it.

It's my understanding that the gov't negotiates all drug purchases in Canada as one and it gives the buyers yooge leverage. You want to sell any Lipitor in Canada? We want it a 10 cents a pill. They go for it because it only cost 1 cent a pill to make. Still a yooge profit.

We are getting hosed in the US as we pay for all the R&D. Some (including Obama) say the problem with the ACA is that it doesn't go far enough, meaning no single payer. Seems like most republicans don't want single payer. Maybe Trump does. He has hinted at it. Bernie does. HRC might be the most conservative on this issue.

If Trump comes out for single payer, it would be both hilarious that he's saying "Fuck You" to the party that nominated him, and awesome that the idea will get big publicity and run and might eventually lead to a healthcare system in this country that helps everyone.

Single payer is the third rail touch it and you will get a shit storm rain down on you by he poeple that actual pay tax in this country.  If the insurance companies are losing thier asses with Obamacare why in hell would the taxpayers want to pay for this cluster F?

That Trump is even hinting at this shows he is a Trojan horse and never was a conservative to start with.  He is a abomination.

 Are you guys willing to pay 25% of your income in tax for single payer?  I'm for sure not.  

Coach Z wrote

Single payer is the third rail touch it and you will get a shit storm rain down on you by he poeple that actual pay tax in this country.  If the insurance companies are losing thier asses with Obamacare why in hell would the taxpayers want to pay for this cluster F?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because, backed by everybody in the entire country, a national insurance system would be way better at reining in price increases by providers than a bunch of profit motivated health insurance companies that only reprepresent a few hundred thousand people?

so would health care be totally free to everyone or would there still be co pays and premiums to be covered by health care consumers?

if free and clear how do you propose to pay for it - a 50% income tax? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN WITHOUT AN ARMED REVOLT BY TAXPAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coach Z wrote

so would health care be totally free to everyone or would there still be co pays and premiums to be covered by health care consumers?

if free and clear how do you propose to pay for it - a 50% income tax? NOT GOING TO HAPPEN WITHOUT AN ARMED REVOLT BY TAXPAYERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, because taxpayers are preparing armed revolts over Medicare and the VA system right now. And tax payers in countries that currently use Single Payer systems are seconds from Civil War.

Coach, please think a little bit before you post.

Do Trump supporters even know what to believe anymore? He's against raising the minimum wage, then he's for it, then he's against it again. His tax plan that's a massive giveaway to the 0.1% will be changed, then it won't. He hates Paul Ryan and says he's ineffective, then he likes Paul Ryan and hates Jeff Bezos.

How could anyone defend the guy when his opinion on any particular issue is completely unknowable at any moment?

mattchuck2 wrote

Do Trump supporters even know what to believe anymore?

Matt,
I use to have to have to work a little to refute your crazy statements - lately you have been making it easy.
This was the first hit I got on googling Clintons flip flops - So tell me again what her positions are?
http://imgur.com/gallery/yZ0LZDP

You can say this about any politician. The one thing (and possibly only thing) I like about Trump is he freely admits that he is flexible on most issues. You have to take what he says as "going in" positions. That does not mean he will give up on any issue, but he is likely not to freely disclose the position from which he won't back off of any further.

She's going down anyway. The email shit gets worse by the day. They can't find any emails in 4 yrs from the guy running the server. Must be he and she never communicated via email

If she's going down let's get on with it.  The fact that they are interviewing her last is telling.

I saw a Trump supporter, a congressman (former Cruz guy) from Texas say that the wall idea was insane an impractical.  The interview said "well then how can you support him?" or something similar.  

He said "look Trump is a deal maker. He's never going to build the wall. It just shows that he is serious about addressing the issue.  The compromise will be to actually ACT on immigration."  If other supporters feel this way Donny has done some good branding.

If he is prez it's going to be very interesting to see how he deals with or motivates congress.

In theory I agree with you...the problem is politicians are as/more crooked as companies.  More chickens more chickens

Nope, our country has been paying the R&D cost for the rest of the world for a long long time.  Over in Europe the costs of drugs are even cheaper than Canada...and in third world countries they are practically giving the shit away.

So here is the problem if Hill goes to Jail and Bernie gets elected he will mandate price controls on the Pharma and Medtech industry.  The response will be that all R&D will come to a grinding halt and now the cure for every thing from cancer minor maladies will not progress.  Govt will be forced to pay for all that and it wont be as big of a pipeline or as effective as before.  Once the profit motive will goes away block buster drugs that make peoples lives better or save them altogether will not be developed.

There is a set of really bad unintended consequences for liberal meddling into things they really don't understand.  

I work with medical device firms on developing all kinds of new stuff.  You should see what they are doing with orthopedic surgery techniques that will likely have a positive impact on every one of our forum readers aging knees and hips at some point.  All that will stop.

Forget price controls that will never work.

Not sure Bernie would win if Hillary was in jail, but I hadn't heard that Bernie was in favor of price controls. I thought he wanted to negotiate prices as single payer like Europe and Canada.

My guess is that Trump will either ignore the issue or push single payer negotiation.

Link on the Bernie price control thing? How would you get US prices in line with the rest of the world Coach?

BTW in my mind "getting prices in line" includes higher prices for the rest of the world too. The R&D is important, it is just redonkulous that only the US pays for it.

Coach....good point.  We need big Pharma and the device companies to innovate.  Could there be a better balance  in the $$$ they make, which drives what shit costs?  Yes, drug companies take yooooge risks, so one could justify the yooooge rewards, but do those rewards, that come in many forms including politically derived rewards, get out of hand?

Bigger problem is running all that medical shit through insurance companies, which could be seen as out of control?????

There is still a profit incentive because they hold a patent on new drugs. The govt could also reduce cost through testing practices, the amount required is pretty extreme even if a drug has been available overseas for many years.

I think Harvey and Coach actually agree here, at least on the problem if not the solution... cost shifting.

Coach Z wrote

I work with medical device firms on developing all kinds of new stuff.  You should see what they are doing with orthopedic surgery techniques that will likely have a positive impact on every one of our forum readers aging knees and hips at some point.  All that will stop.

We'll you calibrated yourself - definitely a bias.

The reality is that NIH provides a pile of funding to medical device companies and big Pharma to fund R&D.
That won't stop. Z just wants to protect his gravy train.