Stowe vs Sugarbush 2/20/15

To quote Ronnie RayGun: "There you go again."

Who defends Gore's vertical? I haven't seen it.

A big span from top to bottom (ie Gore) has advantages especially in spring, regardless of whether or not you can ski it T2B. I really could care less about continuous vert as long as you have some runs that are at least 8-900 feet.

But that is just me.

snoloco wrote

Yet these same people defend Gore's vertical.  Hunter has about the same true up vertical as Gore.  

How the heck do you figure that?  

 You can realistically ski from the top of Gore to the base without jumping through hoops or going through "snowboarder hell" flats, which is a genuine ~2,100 feet.   Would you ski it?  Maybe or maybe not, but it's realistic.   That's much more than Hunter.


EDIT:  If they really wanted to scam Gore's vertical, they could take it from the summit down to Little Gore, but that would be BS.

Skyward/Niagara/Victoria/Valley or Skyward/Lower Sky/Easy Street/Boreen non-stop to the bottom is a heck of a run!

Didn't want to start a ADK vs. VT debate haha

Like JasonWx said, both are great options, and I totally agree, even given my ADK preference.  I do like to ski VT every once in a while to mix it up.

Better tree skiing in VT, maybe more snow totals, on average, a bit more vert in the ADK, combined with great sustained runs and still some descent trees...Slides when open...each place has great things and things that lack...


But to get back to original post.....Sugarbush or Stowe next Friday? !!!

Leaning towards bush based on never been there factor + can't stomach a $108 lift ticket if me and my wife are ORDA passholders.

BenedictGomez wrote

snoloco wrote

Yet these same people defend Gore's vertical.  Hunter has about the same true up vertical as Gore.  

How the heck do you figure that?  

 You can realistically ski from the top of Gore to the base without jumping through hoops or going through "snowboarder hell" flats, which is a genuine ~2,100 feet.   Would you ski it?  Maybe or maybe not, but it's realistic.   That's much more than Hunter.


EDIT:  If they really wanted to scam Gore's vertical, they could take it from the summit down to Little Gore, but that would be BS.

OK what is the route?  Last I knew, the Lower Cloud Traverse was a snowboarder hell flat.  True up verrical at Gore is 1,700 from gondola to base.  Only slightly more than Hunter.  

Back on topic, I'd pick Stowe because they can afford to groom all non bump runs on a daily basis.  It was discussed earlier that Sugarbush can't afford to do this.  The place that's running out of money will not be as good for other reasons as well.

I<3ADK wrote

 


But to get back to original post.....Sugarbush or Stowe next Friday? !!!

 

Flip a coin --- u can't go wrong

or ski 2 days, one at each

JasonWx wrote

this whole argument is nuts...like comparing a Ferrari to a Maserati..both incredible

You can't be serious. A Maserati will cream a Ferrari.... Especially in the woods.  

Bosco DaSkia wrote

JasonWx wrote

this whole argument is nuts...like comparing a Ferrari to a Maserati..both incredible

You can't be serious. A Maserati will cream a Ferrari.... Especially in the woods.

Meh, better get a STI iffin you're heading in the woods

raisingarizona wrote

 I have never skied at Whiteface but looking at the layout it looks like if you are skiing the full 3k+ a lot of it's flat and takes several lifts to get back up to the top.  

It only takes one lift to get to Little Whiteface Summit which has more vert than the VT mtns.  It takes two lifts to reach summit of Whiteface.  You can take Gondi to LWF summit and ski to summit quad or you could load facelift which drops you right at summit quad and then boom - top of the Adirondacks, well almost. And the top to bottom run from summit to base is very much down the fall line.  Hell the lower zone of Whiteface is steeper than most of them Vt mtns.

If you hike a bit from the summit lift - you get to ski this!

 

Maserati vs. Ferrari makes sense to me as a comparison.

As far as River's statement that skiing top to bottom at the Bush sucks, I can only say that on a good day that's the equivalent of breaking up with a swimsuit model because she has webbed feet or something.

Webbed feet are good for swimming anyway!

I<3ADK wrote

Didn't want to start a ADK vs. VT debate haha
Better tree skiing in VT, maybe more snow totals, on average, a bit more vert in the ADK, combined with great sustained runs and still some descent trees...Slides when open...each place has great things and things that lack...


But to get back to original post.....Sugarbush or Stowe next Friday? !!!

Leaning towards bush based on never been there factor + can't stomach a $108 lift ticket if me and my wife are ORDA passholders.

MAYBE???? Didn't we have this debate when I dared questioned the numbers being reported in NVT? I got flamed into oblivion.

355 INCH AVERAGE vs around 150 inches in the ADK's. So if you BELIEVE 355 inches a year in northern vermont that's like comparing alta to mt snow....lol Most northern vermont resorts like stowe groom almost everything that isn't a mogul run flat anyway so you're not able to ski powder on most trails regardless of the amount of snow and some resorts have too much wind for good pow conditions like jay peak. Severe overcrowding also is a problem.

JasonWx wrote

this whole argument is nuts...like comparing a Ferrari to a Maserati..both incredible

Neither major resorts in Vermont nor the adk's are good places for skiing powder on trails IF that's what you're looking for. You'd be better off at plattekill, snow ridge, berkshire east. I'd rather save the gas and go there. If I want to ride cord, I'd go to okemo or mt snow only a weekday and save the gas. Major resorts in both the south and north in VT are garbage on the weekends due to severe overcrowding.

When I skied Stowe I wasn't a tree skier yet.

When I went to Sugarbush, I followed ML and VTFreeheel into Slide Brook.  It seemed massive to me.  I couldn't believe how long we were in there on a single run. Part of that was I couldn't keep up.  I'd to get back in there with rockered skis.

To my knowledge there's nothing quite like it in NY or VT. And as I said it's huge.

I agree that's why I go midweek and it is awesome when it's dead.  Did you know Jay's season total is up to 237"?

Harvey wrote

When I skied Stowe I wasn't a tree skier yet.

When I went to Sugarbush, I followed ML and VTFreeheel into Slide Brook.  It seemed massive to me.  I couldn't believe how long we were in there on a single run. Part of that was I couldn't keep up.  I'd to get back in there with rockered skis.

To my knowledge there's nothing quite like it in NY or VT. And as I said it's huge.

It looks huge, I want to get in there.

ScottyJack wrote

PowderAssassin wrote

lol Most northern vermont resorts like stowe groom almost everything

Says the guy who has never been there

Harvey wrote

When I skied Stowe I wasn't a tree skier yet.

PowAss senior

skimore wrote

PowderAssassin wrote

lol Most northern vermont resorts like stowe groom almost everything

Says the guy who has never been there

Ask stowe's management yourself.  

Also,If any ski areas won't give you a straight answer(wachusett for example), ask the groomers/person in charge of snowmaking/grooming operations. You'll get your answer.

Ask them what trails without moguls are left totally ungroomed on a powder day.

Let me know if they tell you they leave all trails except a few greens with powder on a powder day....LOL
That's what you'd really need at these extremely crowded mountains to get a great pow day. Vast majority of trails is groomed on a pow day.

Stowe is the yuppiest mountain on the ec. What's their core market? Upper class casual skiing EAST COAST families. Those people complain when deep pow is left on trails. This is not the west coast. You have limited terrain, mega crowds, and a clientele that for the most part doesn't know how to ski powder. They complain if it's not cord. The result is extremely limited amount of mountains that leave everything untouched on a pow day. Stowe has  A TON of groomers. They can get at almost every trail over one evening.

I'm the guy who talks to the management/workers at ski areas and specifically asked them their grooming strategy.  I've basically talked to almost every single ski area in vermont. It takes all of 2 minutes and it saves a ton of time and gives you a ton of information. The grooming strategy of most VT mega resort mountains is the same. They groom almost all the non mogul trails after they close. If snow falls on them afterwords and it's not too deep then they leave it if it's not a green trail. Some trails are left with deep pow, but it's only a few. If you get lucky you can get some powder on a trail that they groomed early in the night assuming it's snowing like crazy and they don't decide to take a second pass. That's the classic couple inches over the cord.

 Some mountains are worse than others for this. Okemo will do a second pass for sure right before they open to assure cord and now powder.  There's usually a few trails that are left untouched, but the vast majority of non mogul trails is groomed.

Go ask yourself if you don't believe me!

The grooming that is done on the ec is a major problem in getting powder compared to out west. According to stowe they get 300 inches average a year in which case they have no excuse for mowing down all that powder, since a place like alta and many others clearly is able to attract a ton of people without mowing down most of the pow into cord on a powder day. I'M all for grooming. Just simply not when it's dumping overnight. All the major VT resorts are the same on a pow day...groom baby groom.....You just have to pray it's snowing at 3 inches per hour from 4am to opening. lol Once a year that can happen. Oh yeah and low winds to go with that as well....it's hard to find in VT.

Now the mountains that don't groom almost everything(mrg/magic) don't groom at all basically, have almost no snow making, slow lifts, ect. And magic doesn't get as much snow as mt snow, forget stowe.

 When you never groom you get bumps/ice ect. Even many trails at sugarbush are rarely groomed. This is NOT the same thing as FRESH POW OVER A REGULARLY GROOMED TRAIL. That's true powder skiing. It's soft/silent and smooth. It's like floating in a powder cloud. If I owned a mountain, I'd groom trails right at close for a few hours on a night when it's dumping snow if the trails are skied off/icy. So I'd be done by around 8pm assuming a 4pm close. And then I'd leave it untouched. I'd cancel my overnight/morning groom on a pow day with more than 4 inches forecasted.

Skiray did a report on mohawk. If he really knew mohawk he'd find out very quickly EVERYTHING is mowed down in the morning. They leave no powder on the trails. That was a fluke opening day session for him since most of the trails were "officially closed"

PowderAssassin wrote

snoloco wrote

 The milky glades at Hunter have really good snow in them today vs the icy base on the rest of the trails late in the day.  

It's sad that even after all this snow hunter still has ice. Ridiculous. This is clearly due to insane crowds at that place even with the cold. Dude, why ski there? Wouldn't plattekill be better? What do you find more important, high speed lifts or good snow?

Response to this post will be done in the thread where my post originally was and where this response should have been.  http://forum.nyskiblog.com/The-tree-skiing-dilemma-td4054560i40.html#a4055065

Wow you are desperate to get around your post limit.

snoloco wrote

Wow you are desperate to get around your post limit.

Take the pledge Sno, now that we are assimilating you into the borg - take the pledge.