The tree skiing dilemma

Instead of continuing the "Plattekill" thread I thought I would start one focused on PowAss's main concern...that tree skiing in the east is lame.  If you cut through the banter I think his point is that moving slo-mo through the woods, while fun at times, does not equal the thrill of western tree skiing.  I've done both and have to admit that it feels more like real skiing out there...not so much here.  Granted, out west you are skiing through sparsely populated firs - hit one and you probably won't get hurt (as long as you don't fall into a tree well).

That said, I have been in the trees at MRG and felt it was almost safe to actually ski in them.  There are other spots in the east but they are few and far between (at least from what I have found).  Maybe my level of skiing (adv. int.) keeps me from enjoying the good stuff.

Might part of the problem be that most areas do not make their gladed areas truly skiable? Other than MRG do areas actively manage their glades?  How about Plattekill?  Do they allow volunteers to trim underbrush and trees in certain areas?  It's one thing if you know the woods at a particular area intimately but another if you are a casual visitor.

As far as back country is concerned, could it be that most public (state) lands make it impossible (illegal) to ski?  In NY, for example, a tree in the woods is considered more precious than life itself; anyone involved in unauthorized clearing is subject to criminal charges.  Think about hiking mountain peaks - when I was a kid (70's) you could hike a peak in the Catskills and actually have views from the top.  Now, you get to many peaks and see...trees.

On a snow cat skiing day out west last year the guides were telling us that they spend many days in the summer performing some "chainsaw lovin'" on many of the areas that we were skiing.  Take a look at this pic - now THAT's tree skiing!



Do we simply need better management of the back country?

onscott wrote

If you cut through the banter I think his point is that moving slo-mo through the woods, while fun at times, does not equal the thrill of western tree skiing.

Ummm, not all of us are as $hitty a skier as PowAss.  No, eastern tree skiing often won't be the same as western tree skiing due to the differing forest lands.  However, one is not slo-mo while the other is wide open.  Go to Whiteface.  Ski 10th Mt Div, High Country, much of Sugar Valley......all of which can be skied aggressively.  Gore has countless glades that are open enough to cruise through.  There are so many glades at different places in Vermont that can be skied aggressively that I can't name them all.  Sure, there will be places you might have to slow it down, like in some of the tighter lines in something like the Clodsplitter Glades at WF.  However, this slo-mo through the woods crap is nonsense.

I think every ski experience everywhere should be the same, and exactly match my preferences, expectations, and skill level.

^ lol. Nicely done

Tree skiing anywhere is best done with a foot of untracked, otherwise it's bump skiing with obstacles.
If the snow is there, speed is not an issue. The big reason to ski trees is the beauty, solitude and in many cases the visibility is better.

There is tree skiing (glades) and woods skiing. Two separate and distinct forms of skiing both with their own forms of benefits and enjoyment.  

And, if you're looking at it from a safety persepective as we know our beloved PowAss seems to, wouldn't slower speeds and tighter trees with more underbrush  like you find in the east be much safer than wide spread hardwoods which will necessarily entice you to ski faster?  It is speed that is dangerous while tree skiing.  

mattchuck2 wrote

^ lol. Nicely done

+1

I'll forgive you for leaving snowboarders out (I know I know SKI BLOG). I can only speak for me, but after riding out west, I lost my taste for riding down what was essentially a road paved with snow. This is what is called a "run" at many resorts. Sure its fun to cruise aroun but riding is more fun when you spend a little time in the air. If there weren't things to pop off of on "road runs" or little paths in and out of the trees, they would be super boring unless there was fresh snow (hah).

I have heard of glade patrols at other mountains. Catskills have "forever wild" status, so Belleayre is limited by law to what they can do. I rode through Dreamcatcher yesterday and I have to tell you, this glade is a game changer at Belleayre. There were a few little patches of trees that you could ride through before (chippewa, belleayre glade, Big T). Maybe it was because there was crazy powder in there, but holy crap it was fun and gnarly at the same time. There were some tracks at the top where it was flat, then where it drops off, there was so much fresh snow that if you stopped you were buried and fucked. I took a sapling to the thigh at  one point, thankfully it bent. My friend ended up going left, and I went right, and we didn't see each other for like 5 minutes in there! I know people have always poached those lines, but it is cool that they opened it up officially now (well, i ducked a rope but ski patrol was standing right there and sent 6 kids from his group through).
 
I don't think you can compare the west and the east, but I love east coast glades. once I started riding them, I got so much better from all the quick turns. You never make that many turns on a snowboard when you are riding open space. That being said, I wish they would at least clear the deadfall.

onscott wrote

   I've done both and have to admit that it feels more like real skiing out there...not so much here.  

Please define "real" skiing.

This whole time I thought I was skiing, I've never skied out West so I've never been "real" skiing??

skunkape wrote

I'll forgive you for leaving snowboarders out (I know I know SKI BLOG).

No intention to leave out boarders. I just liked nyskiblog.com better than nyrideblog.com or other alternatives.

skunkape wrote

I rode through Dreamcatcher yesterday and I have to tell you, this glade is a game changer at Belleayre.

Awesome. Love your passion man.

Guess where this tight ec glade is.  Lots of rocks in it, but fun to ski it once.  Hint: it's in NY.

onscott wrote

they are few and far between

Eastern tree skiing and no orange nets

Wow that's a lot of pictures.  What resort if any?

onscott wrote

That said, I have been in the trees at MRG and felt it was almost safe to actually ski in them.  There are other spots in the east but they are few and far between (at least from what I have found).  Maybe my level of skiing (adv. int.) keeps me from enjoying the good stuff.

I think you answered your own question there. If you felt more safe at MRG skiing trees than other areas, I suspect you were skiing some pretty mellow trees. MRG's few on map glades are rather tame by northeast standards. Get off the map and it gets real pretty quick. MRG has some really technical and challenging lines, some stuff the still blows my mind and I've skied most of the best tree shots in the northeast. Lots of steep holes that are 6-8' wide, some ski width wide stuff, cliffs & ice flows to navigate, etc.

Fact is that all ski areas need to maintain their glades or else the trees would grow back and blow downs would trip up skiers. I've done maintenance days at MRG and it is amazing how much can grow back in just one or two years even with regular maintenance. Most folks that ski typical on map glades are skiing very well manicured glades. If you don't need to cross block tree branches with your poles, it is probably pretty well maintained.

The biggest danger in tree skiing, I find, is the time before the snow has consolidated a good base. Deep enough to make trees look skiable but not deep enough to complete bury blow downs. Nothing strikes fear into me more than seeing my tips hook under a down tree. Simple solution to that safety issue is stay on map in open glades only and don't ski untracked powder. Not a solution I subscribe to.

snoloco wrote

Guess where this tight ec glade is.  Lots of rocks in it, but fun to ski it once.  Hint: it's in NY.

A matter of perspective and experience, but that looks pretty sparse and wide open to me. Definitely wouldn't call that tight.

snoloco wrote

Wow that's a lot of pictures.  What resort if any?

My guess, Wilderness.

Nice shots Skimore --- dreamy

riverc0il wrote

snoloco wrote

Guess where this tight ec glade is.  Lots of rocks in it, but fun to ski it once.  Hint: it's in NY.

A matter of perspective and experience, but that looks pretty sparse and wide open to me. Definitely wouldn't call that tight.

That picture is taken at Hunter.  Milky Glades.

some of these threads crack me up.  there are so many different type glades in the north east there is something for everyone.there are steeps and flats. the steeps don't hold the snow as well and get skied off quickly. the flats like twister at gore, can be bombed.my kids were in twister glades at age 5. just keep looking for something you like. and keep your tips up, some are managed better then others.

snoloco wrote

Wow that's a lot of pictures.  What resort if any?

 Thunder Ridge