Time to transition to Teleskiing?

Interesting thanks.   Where is a good place to start like rent for a day and maybe some instruction too?   Garnet hill?  Gore?  Somewhere around placid or WF?   Anyplace around old forge?  

It sure seems like it would be hard on the knees.

For me it isn't. There are two things I can't do. Run. If I run even a quarter mile my knees will hurt for days or longer. The other is hike downhill. It's not as bad as running, and I can make it better by using poles, but it's just not worth it. I don't climb peaks because at the summit I'm filled with dread about descending. Oddly I can hike with a heavy pack, as long as I stay in the valleys.

For some reason tele never hurts my knees. My doc told me that they key to knee happiness is keeping the muscles on the sides (?) of the knees strong. He told me that tele improves the fitness of those muscles.

To me the biggest danger is gun gak. If you hit a patch and stop dead, and go down without a releasable binding, you can really get hurt.

Hoser wrote

Interesting thanks.   Where is a good place to start like rent for a day and maybe some instruction too?   Garnet hill?  Gore?  Somewhere around placid or WF?   Anyplace around old forge?

I'd guess Gore.  They have a big Tele following there as it is.  It's probably all the flat spots and glades - those seem to attract Tele skiers like moths to a flame.

Garnet hill does a short BC Tele lesson, but it's more focused on XCD, and you won't learn to Tele really well in that short time.  Also you'll likely be on skis, boots and bindings that require a lot more finesse.  XCD is really fun, but it's kind of different IMO.  There's a big void between XC track skiing and Alpine skiing, and as I said in my first post, you can get as close to either as you want given current gear.  If you're a dh focused, resort skier, then go for the most modern Alpine-infused stuff and go get lessons.  You'll be able to ski parallel turns just like you always do off the bat.  You'll probably be able to ski everything you normally do except maybe bumps and super steeps, where you might feel like you're gonna go on your face.

WF probably does Tele too.  Can't imagine why not.  Most of the bigger places have rentals and instruction.  Might not be the ideal place to learn though.

OF?  Eh... call.  McCauley is pretty small, so unlikely they rent Tele or have dedicated instructors.  I'd think the same about Woods Valley and Snow Ridge.

Ethan said Platty does rentals - no idea about instructors, but I bet you could find one there.  They seem to have a big Tele following too.  Not sure how good Platty is for learning though.  Looks like a lot of steeps - if they have a green/easy blue open, that will be better for learning.

At Gore, see if you can get Mark Lacek. If he still teaches. At Plattekill ask for MC.

Just one last thing I feel I should add Hoser...

I'm a 10x better Alpine skier than I am Tele skier.  I can carve, hit jumps, ski fast, ski any trail I've tried... but I have zero interest in ever fixing my heel again.

I really wish I would have started freeheel skiing when I was younger.  I remember seeing a guy, like the only guy I ever remember Telemarking, skiing at Hunt Hollow near Naples, NY while I was riding the lift up.  I just remember his skis were really long and he was making big ole sweeping Tele turns.  I actually thought he was skiing XC skis - I had no friggin' idea back then.  I also thought that's just what you had to do to make XC skis turn.  I then promptly tried this on my XC skis and made zero progress.  I then forgot about Tele for about 20 years.

Had I actually had the means and the knowledge back then, my life would have been a lot different.

Hoser wrote

Talk to me about knees.   Starting to give me issues on long hikes coming downhill.   Tele seems like it would beat on the knees.  

By comparison skiing alpine groomers I consider almost no knee impact.  Bumped up or fresh snow and heavy wet stuff yea that takes a toll.  Same theory on tele impact?   More or less than alpine on same conditions?

I know a very high end rock climber and hiker with bone-on-bone knees who skis tele.  He does trail running too.  Lives in Lake Placid.

Hoser wrote

Interesting thanks.   Where is a good place to start like rent for a day and maybe some instruction too?   Garnet hill?  Gore?  Somewhere around placid or WF?   Anyplace around old forge?

Don't know about renting gear but I had a great introductory lesson with Leval Johnson at Belleayre a year ago.  My daughter's tele boots fit well enough.  She's too busy with school so I can play with her gear.  Leval has been L3 Alpine for a long time.  Also L3 for snowboarding and L2 for nordic/tele.

I booked an hour to start with.  Then extended another hour because he was a very good instructor and I was making progress, more or less.  Learned a few things that turned out to be helpful for my alpine technique.

The very experienced telemark instructor who taught my daughter at North Country School is working at Jiminy Peak this season.

Here is what you need:

http://www.telemarkdown.com/store/apparel/the-2018-freeheelers-demo-tour/

(That link says 2018, but it's the 2019 schedule)

You can demo all kinds of Tele equipment for free & places like Platty offer free lessons on those days, too.

The Demo Day/Race at Gore on February 2nd is gonna be super fun.

Cool thanks for the info and link!

Mar - how do you like the Tele?

Any plans to switch over, or just something to play with?

Cunningstunts wrote

Mar - how do you like the Tele?

Any plans to switch over, or just something to play with?

You asking me?  Not planning to switch.  Have worked too hard in the last decade to become a solid advanced alpine skier.  Not starting something new at age 62.  More interested is seeing how much better I can get on alpine in the next decade.  Definitely not interested in buying another set of gear.

I'm playing with tele partially so I can relate better to my daughter's interest.  She switched while in Lake Placid and I doubt she'll go back to alpine.  Her teacher at North Country School is an L3 instructor and talked her into giving tele a try.  (John Doan also taught music at NCS and was her advisor.  His wife taught at NCS too and skis tele too.)  She proceeded to talk a classmate who was also an advanced alpine skier into learning with her.  Since her boots fit me well enough, I could satisfy my curiosity.  Tried renting a couple times but the shops I checked with didn't have skis remotely short enough (5'0", 112 lbs).

When I saw how easily my daughter could make turns with her heels down, that made it much easier to decide to spend some time with her tele gear.  She can ski expert terrain at Alta with her tele gear when making no effort to make tele turns.  She's at most an intermediate with tele turns since she essentially only had two seasons doing tele at North Country School.  Her last year was a very warm winter and the school ski hill never opened.  Only got a 3-4 afternoons at Whiteface that season.

When I play with her skis at small hills like Wachusett, I spend a few runs trying tele turns on green trails.  Then can just relax making parallel turns on blues/blacks for the rest of the ski day.

marznc wrote

When I play with her skis at small hills like Wachusett, I spend a few runs trying tele turns on green trails.  Then can just relax making parallel turns on blues/blacks for the rest of the ski day.

This is mostly what I do when I ski on hardpack.  Some day maybe I'll focus more on my Tele edging technique and push myself to actually Telemark on steeper terrain.  I like that I can ski either technique, and that's why I'd never switch back.  I can ski better on Alpine boots with fixed heels, but the lack of comfort in Alpine boots has kept me away.

When I ski BC/Nordic/whatever, I almost always do Tele turns.  They are much easier for me on snow where i have to worry less about edge control and more about my fore/aft balance.  Alpine turns can often end in faceplants with freeheels in deep snow.  I also found snowplows on my XC/D stuff don't work so well in deep snow - so that was my main focus for learning the Telemark.  If I ski on groomed XC trails I very rarely do Tele turns unless I'm just playing around.  If I need control of speed I'm much more comfortable with Alpine techniques.

Cunningstunts wrote

marznc wrote

When I play with her skis at small hills like Wachusett, I spend a few runs trying tele turns on green trails.  Then can just relax making parallel turns on blues/blacks for the rest of the ski day.

This is mostly what I do when I ski on hardpack.  Some day maybe I'll focus more on my Tele edging technique and push myself to actually Telemark on steeper terrain.  I like that I can ski either technique, and that's why I'd never switch back.  I can ski better on Alpine boots with fixed heels, but the lack of comfort in Alpine boots has kept me away.

When I ski BC/Nordic/whatever, I almost always do Tele turns.  They are much easier for me on snow where i have to worry less about edge control and more about my fore/aft balance.  Alpine turns can often end in faceplants with freeheels in deep snow.  I also found snowplows on my XC/D stuff don't work so well in deep snow - so that was my main focus for learning the Telemark.  If I ski on groomed XC trails I very rarely do Tele turns unless I'm just playing around.  If I need control of speed I'm much more comfortable with Alpine techniques.

Big difference is that a) I can afford to get well-fitted alpine boots with custom molded footbeds and liners and b) not interested in BC or nordic.  Too much work.  My current alpine boots are quite comfortable.

Having improved my alpine skiing technique, I will do a 10-15 min hike in-bounds for powder turns at this point.  Even willing to hike for Catherine's at Alta twice in one day now that I'm in better shape.  Didn't start year round ski conditioning until knee rehab (not a skiing injury) after age 55.

My daughter definitely likes the free heel aspect of tele even though she's more of a resort skier.  We haven't sold her alpine boots yet, but there isn't a pair of skis in our house with bindings set to those boots.

I can (could) afford custom fitted boots too!  I've had Alpine boots that were fine, but the last pair cost me so much money and so much time and pain, I quit.  I could go throw on a rental pair that were a half size too large and take up the space with socks and have no pain, but ski like shit, so I decided it wasn't worth wasting my money.

Even plastic Tele boots hurt my feet, but much less.  Some people's feet change, and apparently mine did and they are a nightmare now.  This is why I favor skiing with leather boots, but unless you've actually tried skiing dh with leather boots, you have no idea!  You'd probably ski better with plastic boots that were two sizes too large.

Plus after I learned how to carve I figured there was nothing else to do but learn to ski faster and (eventually) get hurt.

Cunningstunts wrote

. . .
Even plastic Tele boots hurt my feet, but much less.  Some people's feet change, and apparently mine did and they are a nightmare now.  This is why I favor skiing with leather boots, but unless you've actually tried skiing dh with leather boots, you have no idea!  You'd probably ski better with plastic boots that were two sizes too large.

Plus after I learned how to carve I figured there was nothing else to do but learn to ski faster and (eventually) get hurt.

Luckily, my feet are relatively easy to fit for ski boots.

Skied in leather lace-up boots on straight skis at NCS back in the late 1960s.  That's where I learned to ski.  While I really liked skiing, not sure I would've bothered to get back on the slopes on a regular basis without buckle boots and the invention of ski pants and jackets that are warm and relatively light and thin.  Plus I never learned to make parallel turns on straight skis.  A lot easier with the current design of alpine skis.

I grew up skiing straight skis - I liked them a lot.  I didn't like shaped skis when I first tried them.  Felt like I was locked down to the snow.  Then I decided I should go take lessons even though I had been skiing for quite some time.  I learned a lot.

I remember a couple years back I took my leather boots out for a few runs on a not-so-nice February day.  Runs were firm and icy.  I crashed bad a couple times on some ice in the shaded woods where it was real slick.  In the sun where the snow was a little easier to handle i could make it to the bottom but I was freakin' gassed.  Every turn, just to get the skis to grip, not carve, I had to exaggerate all my movements like I was trying to carve.  I've skied leathers a lot off-piste and sometimes it's rough, but never was like that.

I gather the Fey brothers are a big reason that tele is growing in New England and elsewhere.  Their shops are near Crotched in NH and CT.  In addition to Crotched, they have helped to set up rental fleets at Camelback, PA, SLC (Miles Fey), and Portland, OR (Sam Fey).

http://www.telemarkdown.com/about/

We are Erik and Martin Fey…the Fey Brothers. We entered the telemark/alpine touring business as backcountry skiers who came up with a novel idea — the patented nordic skiboard, which was then marketed as the Teleboard.  When customers also started asking for tele boots and bindings, we added lines of skis and  founded telemarkdown.com in 1999. We now carry Atomic, Black Diamond, Crispi, Elan, G3, Hart Skis,Icelantic, Liberty Skis, Rossignol, Rottefella, 22 Designs, and other great brands. Our goal was to bring clearance and closeout gear to the Tele and AT skier at the best prices possible and we also carry all the current years gear too.

Our pledge to you: We will beat any authorized dealer’s price on any gear of same year, model, and size. WE WON’T BE BEAT! Just call any time from 9 am to 9 pm Eastern at 603-533-5589 or 603-533-0276. The shop number in Connecticut is 860-428-5979.

Our CT Shop is:
ASPINOCK WOODS -570 RIVER RD PUTNAM, CT 06260….and when we say woods… we mean, it’s in the woods

Our NH Shop is:
Fey’s 55 HOOPER HILL RD NEW BOSTON, NH 03070…Only 15 mins from Crotched Mountain, 25 from Pat’s Peak and 45 from Sunapee, so perfect if you want to demo a pair for the day.

Whether you call or come into the shop in CT or NH, you’ll talk to Martin or Erik every time. We pride ourselves on personal service, going the extra mile for our customers and doing our best to remember all of them. We will bend over backward to get your gear to you on time — and for less.

Thanks,

ERIK and MARTIN

Not NY but tele demos this weekend for those in the metro area; Camelback Saturday and Blue Mountain Sunday.
I'll be a t Blue for Tele Sunday

After a few hours on my 3 pins Sunday morning I wandered over to the tent to demo. Tele-Jake had TMD set me up with what he called the "holy grail" of tele bindings, the Meidjo tech toe with some Crispi boots (not sure of the model boot or even the skis that were mounted up - they were blue  boutique)
After a little bit of struggle getting the boot into the binding - way too fussy for me - I checked out the tour mode, very cool. I switched into ski mode and set off. Holy cow could these things rail, I felt like I was cheating! I could certainly ski faster with more control and less effort from gs turns to bumps to grinding  the spine along the edges. 3 or 4 runs later my legs were getting tired and lazy was really just skiing them alpine with a tele turn here and there for the last few runs.While they were very responsive, I just don't see myself making the investment to upgrade even if they did joke my current boots and bindings belong in a museum lol. Maybe someday if I move where i was touring to some serious terrain. If I want to rail the ski I'll just ski alpine until then. I  did like the bamboo poles with green palm tree like baskets - I will find a pair of those!

My buddy does mostly backcountry skiing.  He has been on the Meidjo (or M-binding) for a number of years.  Every year, he broke the binding.  Last season it was on his first day at a backcountry lodge in BC. He ended up on AT gear the rest of the trip. (The lodge didn't have any extra tele gear, just AT).  The company (I believe its French) fix it every year for him and now they tell him it is full on solid at this point. I could definitely see the advantage of the tech toe when climbing, but I can't see it having the same "feel" as a 22 designs binding.  Which leads me to the Lynx binding, (22 designs new tech toe tele binding) which I am very curious to try out.  

#spreadtelemark