Touring Set Up

The one thing I'd like to add is a pair of touring boots that will work with my Barons.  Was too cheap to pull the trigger on that at the end of last season, figuring my Nordica Hell and Back Hike Exps can get the job done, even though I know they will be heavy for touring, on top of an already heavy setup.  Hey, my kids wanted to know what I want for Christmas!

Anyone have experience with Marker Dukes? I'm getting those and skins for my Patrons. Any input on skins would be appreciated. The bindings I'm already getting (too good of a deal not to) so I'm just looking for any nuances regarding those. I certainly wont be using them a lot but there have been a few times in the past when I wished I'd had a setup like that to use so I figured why the hell not.

I have had the dukes  and been using  them since they first came out.  No problems.  They are burly and heavy.  

Cool. Thanks

Skins. Don't go with the all synthetic ones. Go with the something like this that's more supple and packable. For what your implying they rollup much easier to just stick in a pocket

http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en/ski-skins/glidelite-mohair-mix-sts-skins-BD163715_cfg.html#start=3

Good info -- Yes, all I want to be able to do is roll them up and stow them away quickly

campgottagopee wrote

Good info -- Yes, all I want to be able to do is roll them up and stow them away quickly

So you are sayin' your tank tread ATV doesn't fit in your pocket

Alright so Thank You all for the input, have learned a TON and still have a lot more learning to do...  

I'm pulling the trigger on Chargers, Switchbacks and T4's.  I want a set up that isn't going to limit me going down hill... I figure since I have 0 experience I'll hit resort a handful of times and figure this hippy tele thing out..  I already have leather gloves so I figure I'm 1/2 there.

Let's make America great again by purchasing super expensive setups first.

^^^After almost clicking order I did one more take on everything.  MikeK, you see to know your shit... and the more I think about it with my CC on my desk I have decided to go with the Sbound 112's, 3pin and cables with T4's.*  I figure the T4's will give me some room to cheat when turning as I have no skill in that area.

Time and a place for everything

Yes!

Chris!  Sorry I rushed right by yesterday I think I had pow fever.

Chris wrote

^^^After almost clicking order I did one more take on everything.  MikeK, you see to know your shit... and the more I think about it with my CC on my desk I have decided to go with the Sbound 112's, 3pin and cables with T4's.*  I figure the T4's will give me some room to cheat when turning as I have no skill in that area.

Sorry I missed this.

Ummm - again, depends on what you are after!!!  You'll definitely have an easier time controlling those skis vs a Charger with a small, low cuff boot like the T4.

I love the S Bounds.  You are heavy enough for them - they are a tad stiffer than some others skis, but I love the sidecut and how they bite.  They feel like slalom skis compared to my other XC skis.

If you get them, go right for a 189 - (it's really like 186cm chord length).  That will give you lots of float for whacking around.

Bindings... hmmm - I'd tell you to go for a switchback with the T4.  It's so damn stiff compared to a leather boot or even an Excursion the free pivot might be a better idea.  It might feel weird to a XC skier, but if you have no XC experience, you'll get used to it no problem.  Thing is real xc skiers like some resistance as they kick, but not too much.  That's why NNN is such a nice binding, but it's damn hard to control down hills.

With that setup you'll be able to get yourself into plenty of trouble.  Make sure you get the right length rods for your boots!

My only warning is I hate how the S Bounds feel on hard, groomed snow (they feel bouncy and skittery and hard to decide if they want to edge - it's the stiffer camber).  People say the Vectors handle it well.  So if you want to ski at a resort, and you get an icy day, the S Bounds might make you want to quit.  Just throwing that out there to be honest as I can from what I know.

Good luck man!  You'll have fun no matter what you get.

Oh and if you already bought the 3 pin cables, hell with it.  I'd ski without them (the cables) and throw them on for a long dh or if you go to a resort.  Don't climb or go on the flats with them.

For schwacking around in the woods you probably won't even notice them going down, depending on how good your balance is.  IMO it's better for skis like this to just get used to skiing in one setup and climb and descend all the same.  Stopping to futz with stuff you might as well have AT skis.  The whole strength of a XCD setup is you just plow up and down anything that isn't super steep.

Another note:

The pins on a ski like the 112 gives you an option to use it with a leather boot and get more touring capability out of it.  If it turns out you like them and you want to ski easier trails in the ADKS where the T4 is overkill, just throw on some leathers and off you go.  If want to ski something that you think might make you poop your pants a little, throw on the T4s.

Lots of tours in the ADKs are leather boot type terrain.

A boot like this would be an ideal counterpart for those skis for touring:

http://www.crispi.it/en/backcountry-antartic_black.php

I don't plan on really using them at the resort all that much.  Really I see just going to figure out how to go downhill on them and figure out the turning aspect so when I'm in the woods I have somewhat of idea of what to do.   Once I have a bit of comfort I feel that I'll primarily be using them to get around the woods.  Of course, I could fall in love w making tele turns and I would find a ski that did that.. but one thing at a time here.

My thought process on bindings was buy the 3pin as I could use a softer boot for flatter tours, is this the correct logic as a softer boot is preferred for easier/flatter terrain?  I've got a pair of cheap Alpina 3pins for my xc skis that I envisioned using if I knew there wouldn't be much downhill.  


I'll be on some snowmobile trails accessing different areas in Ferris Lake Wilderness, I'll be interested to see the tracking issue and lack of glide.

Got notification that S-bounds are out of stock for a couple of weeks from ORS.  Did some more searching around and this seems to be a common trend.

I didn't know you had some 3 pin leathers, that changes things.  What boots and what skis are you using those on?

You'll probably want something kinda stiff for the S Bound, even as far as leathers go.  It's still a lot of ski to swing around on a floppy boot.

If you are in a hurry, I'd say an Annum or Epoch could easily replace the S Bound as 'the ski'.  I like the Epoch better, it's a little stiffer flex and a tad narrower than the Annum.  And really the Epoch ain't stiff at all.  It's soft as hell.  It's a great, easy ski to get around on.  My wife loves hers.  I've skied them, they are great.  Light, flexy, plenty enough sidecut, track good on flats, easy to power into a turn.

The Annum is the 'powder ski' of the XCD skis.  It has a really limp camber, it's wide but not a ton of sidecut.  If you are climbing and descending only it's good, but really it begs for deep snow.  Some will say it's a trail ski but lots of people ski this more as an ultra-lite powder ski, and did so before the Vector and Charger came along.

I ditched mine because it's just not a ski I use a lot.  If we had bottomless lake effect powder all year, I would have kept it, but for the mix of snow I'm typically encountering, I prefer the ones with a little more camber like the Eon or Epoch.  The Eon is almost a traditional XC ski though, so probably not what you are after.  To me the Epoch is a real good mix of trail ski and whacking ski.  It also sits flatter on groomed stuff.  It's still going to feel light and bouncy on hard snow though.

Wow.  Not quite sure what's going on in this thread, but it sure looks like everything's going well.  Sorry to interrupt.  As you were.



TD

Telemark Dave wrote

Wow.  Not quite sure what's going on in this thread, but it sure looks like everything's going well.  Sorry to interrupt.  As you were.



TD

I'm not sure either anymore  

Chargers, S Bounds, Epochs... what will it be?

I hope I'm not leading anyone astray... I'm more of an XC guy than the majority of this forum.

Chris check out the Mountaineer in Keene or Cascade in Lake Placid both nave most of these skis mentioned. Also none of these perform well on groomers, I've tried, doable but not really fun. I concur with the switchback, I tour with it in both locked and free position. I own both the Vector and 2 pairs of Annums 175 /195 also the Eon 195 in wax able. bindings ,Voile switchback , BD O2, G3 Targa, Roto super telly, Voile 3 pin cable. And I seem to find time to use them all. OH I also use my K2 World Piste with wax when the snow is good. I use quiver killer inserts on the Vectors and Annums so changing bindings is easy. Looking for a BC type telly lesson look up Julie at Garnet Hill.

I took some BC lessons at GH 3 years back or so.  You learn about every turn imaginable in 20 minutes and spend the rest of your life trying to actually do them.

I don't know what is going on at GH anymore either but way back when they used to let you demo the T4.  My wife did and she hated it.  Got her the Excursion, she's loves 'em.  I've said that a million times, but it helps to try before you buy - especially boots.  I seem to have to buy every boot at least twice and send one back... and some you can only get in Europe so that's an extra PITA.

I don't think Mountaineer has Fischers unless they've just started carrying them - just Madshus and Voile as I recall.  GH had Rossi and Madshus.  Mountain Man in Old Forge did have a few Fischers at one time, but never the S Bounds that I saw.  They also had Madshus.  Pretty much everywhere carries the Mads - they are like the go-to XCD ski in NA.

MikeK wrote

I don't know what is going on at GH anymore either but way back when they used to let you demo the T4.

They let me demo the T4 and the Rossi BCs with Rotte 8s? on them. Demo was all day on Raymond Brook.

I bought a similar setup (Voile Switchbacks not the Rossis) as soon as I could get the cash together.

If anyone is serious and looking for a more extensive demo of that gear, I might be able to help.

I'll throw out the same offer.  If'n there is snow, and there's a place you can meet me and follow me around, you are welcome to try any ski I'm not on.

Thing is some of my skis have NNN bindings, some have plain old pins, no cables or free pivots.

I'm actually not so keen on letting anyone try my boots, but I'd let you slip them on to check fit if you didn't mind the fact that I soak them with sweat everytime I use them,