Trouble in River City

So me and the misses go into one of our favorite restaurants, sit down and notice a disturbing sign. The menu has shrunk - what’s going on, some of our favorite entrees are gone. The owner and good friend comes over and I ask- what’s up? The answer - no help. The kitchen people can have plenty of work elsewhere. It’s the same all over - nobody can find workers. The North country labor pool has evaporated. The menu was cut down because there is no one to cook. Another couple we know who ones a restaurant - the wife is now doing the dishes as they can’t find the help. They both are paying help more but it’s still not enough to attract new help. I can’t get people to help around our place either anymore. Apparently the mountains will be understaffed as well. Don’t be surprised if you have to take turns loading you buddies on chairs this winter...

All signs of a great economy with near full employment- when this last happened after WW2 it forced employers to offer great benefits- maybe this will happen again and we won’t need Medicare for all.

Add in STRs and restaurant workers can’t afford to live.  LP imports guest visa workers from South America to fill that gap but their is nearly enough of them as workers keep getting forced out when thier long term housing keeps getting converted to STRs

If they pay higher wages, people will drive longer distances to work (from towns with cheaper housing)

What are these kitchen & dishwashing jobs paying? There's your issue. Maybe they just don't want to pay the salaries that it would take to get good help, so their business is suffering as a result. The laws of economics still apply in the north country. If you want a successful business, you need to pony up some cash to attract good employees (or do a better job of advertising job openings to potential hires).

MC2 5678F589 wrote

If they pay higher wages, people will drive longer distances to work (from towns with cheaper housing)

What are these kitchen & dishwashing jobs paying? There's your issue. Maybe they just don't want to pay the salaries that it would take to get good help, so their business is suffering as a result. The laws of economics still apply in the north country. If you want a successful business, you need to pony up some cash to attract good employees (or do a better job of advertising job openings to potential hires).

Yes - and that’s is just what’s happening. I view this as a sign of just how well the economy is working for everyone. When the people you would hire for small jobs around the property no longer ask if you need help or can’t “schedule” you in for weeks or months then times are good and when this is happening in the far flung reaches of the North Country things are great.

Okay, but like I said, economics rules still apply.

If there are less workers in the county you live in (and most upstate NY counties have declined in population), and more demand for jobs (because there are a lot of tourists & second home owners), workers are going to be busy (especially this time of year) and demand higher salaries.

It's good news, let's see if it continues this fall & winter.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

It's good news, let's see if it continues this fall & winter.

Or past Nov 3rd 2020

As some of you know, I run a college food service. It's a small school so we serve around 700 meals a day.

Help is the major source of my aggravation.. I pay my main cooks  around 20$ a hour and they still want more.
Dish crew makes 12..Prep cooks around 13+...I am on my hands and knees trying to find people..Hence I work 6.5 days a week..

I think the restaurant business is big trouble.

This has been happening on the coast in all the New England summer towns for a while. This is what happens when immagration is curtailed.

Benny Profane wrote

This has been happening on the coast in all the New England summer towns for a while. This is what happens when immagration is curtailed.

It’s a wonderful thing - a market driven living wage. No guaranteed minimum income required.

PeeTex wrote

It’s a wonderful thing.

You started this thread with a complaint. Now its wonderful that restaurant owners are washing dishes & your favorite restaurant has a smaller menu?

JasonWx wrote

Help is the major source of my aggravation.. I pay my main cooks  around 20$ a hour and they still want more.
Dish crew makes 12..Prep cooks around 13+....

These still seems a bit low for the area? Tough work, too.

I feel like there is still a lot of room for automation in the restaurant sector (dishwashing, prep) and that will bring labor costs down some?

Pee..Here is the reality ... Most of the back out the house restaurant employees are from south of the boarder.With out these wonderful people there will be not be a restaurant industry... "white America doesn't cook"I am the exception..

I learned spanish working in kitchens..spanish is the primary language spoken at my unit..

MC2 5678F589 wrote

PeeTex wrote

It’s a wonderful thing.

You started this thread with a complaint. Now its wonderful that restaurant owners are washing dishes & your favorite restaurant has a smaller menu?

Actually I was not complaining. It is a good thing that business owners now have to figure out ways to attract or retain people, whether it’s profit sharing, higher wages, or benefits. This is much more productive than government give aways.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

I feel like there is still a lot of room for automation in the restaurant sector (dishwashing, prep) and that will bring labor costs down some?

Spoken like a true capitalists.

JasonWx wrote

Pee..Here is the reality ... Most of the back out the house restaurant employees are from south of the boarder.With out these wonderful people there will be not be a restaurant industry... "white America doesn't cook"I am the exception..

I learned spanish working in kitchens..spanish is the primary language spoken at my unit..

White America doesn't cook because the incentives are not there. The incentives are not there because of the policies we have had in place for decades and the stigma we have placed on service jobs or those jobs the require manual labor or little education. These are jobs you can’t export.

PeeTex wrote

JasonWx wrote

Pee..Here is the reality ... Most of the back out the house restaurant employees are from south of the boarder.With out these wonderful people there will be not be a restaurant industry... "white America doesn't cook"I am the exception..

I learned spanish working in kitchens..spanish is the primary language spoken at my unit..

White America doesn't cook because the incentives are not there. The incentives are not there because of the policies we have had in place for decades and the stigma we have placed on service jobs or those jobs the require manual labor or little education. These are jobs you can’t export.

Can you please explain, Peetex?  I have no idea what you're trying to say here.  What policies are your referring to?  And what do you mean by saying jobs you can't export?  

What Jason said is a reality.  Plain and simple.  I've worked in many restaurants over the years.  IMHO, the restaurant industry has 2 issues that are really killing it.  1st and foremost is that no one uses cash anymore.  Cash used to be king.  Most restaurant owners used to pay employees 100% in cash (not to mention themselves!).  No one uses cash anymore, so employers are forced to pay employees on the books. So, now back of house employees are not only making mediocre to poor wages but the gov't is having its share as well.  Also, as a result of the no cash/tax situation, restaurants are now having difficulties paying immigrant employees who may not have proper working papers.  Since most other (legal) locals (whether white or non-white) won't work for what is essentially after taxes probably around $6/hour.  Hence, the worker shortage in the restaurant industry.

Heard last night several restaurants in plattsburgh are closing because they can’t find help

Robotics for the food service industry is a real growth area.  Will replace several low paying jobs with a tech at a higher wage to program and maintain them.

https://misorobotics.com/flippy/

Marcski - I could give you a laundry list of reasons but I don’t want to go anymore political than I already have as poor Harv would need to kill this thread.

As a retail store manager, I've had an enormously difficult time filling open positions lately despite being on campus in a college town. Same thing for the on campus dining service and every retailer and restaurant in the area. Job boards are chock full of low paying part time jobs that people don't want, even most of the college kids. McDs and Walmart are offering $10+ an hour to start and still can't hire enough people.

A lot of trash has been talked about Walmart and McD's but they are on the very high end for entry level part time work and forcing the rest of us to push starting wages higher (at least in areas where the minimum wage is still in single digits). Hourly pay isn't the issue, not being full time and not having benefits are. Decouple those things and I think more people would be willing to gig the part time economy. Also a lot of trash is talked about automated tellers. But those automated tellers are not getting people fired, they are filling in where people are not applying for open positions.

Given my own hiring woes, last year I was playing close attention to the ski areas I was at. I was super impressed that I didn't really see any service gaps. But that may be because people like JasonWX and I and other full time salary service workers are putting in stupid hours to close the gap. I won't be surprised if there are more issues this coming year, especially as the country has become less friendly to visiting workers that help power many resorts.

Marcski wrote

.  No one uses cash anymore, so employers are forced to pay employees on the books. So, now back of house employees are not only making mediocre to poor wages but the gov't is having its share as well..

This seems like a weird critique. "We used to do illegal shit, but now it's harder to do that, so our business is failing"