Tupper Lake and ACR

Snowballs wrote

Slope side is only one potential selling point X. For many years people have been buying expensive homes in the ADKs that don't have slope access.

I understand the great camp attraction. There is a good chance they sell 20 great camps. The problem is the plan also includes around 680 additional units. What is the attraction for the 680 units? There are 105 properties for sale today in Tupper Lake. This includes some decent houses from around $80k to $120k. Anybody who wants to be in Tupper Lake for all the other attractions besides skiing can be there now for less money than they would spend to be in the development. It seems like TL is a very soft market. The current state of BT will not draw anybody to the area.


Zillow Tupper Lake

endoftheline wrote

Jeff, Just found a reference in the Tupper Lake Free Press, 10/24/12, page 4, letter from Foxman.

Thanks endo.  I couldn't locate it because those crappy archives aren't searchable.

Here's endo's link referencing the 7.25% escrow arrangement for Big Tupper improvements:

If ARISE does not open the ski area, we will do it when our business plan dictates. We have told the Tupper Lake Planning Board that we will set aside 7.25% of gross eastern great camp sales for the ski area and that the buyers of all but 68 of the approved 650 lots will be assessed $1,000 a year for lift tickets through the homeowners’ association. We want and need the ski area as much as the community.  Full article:  Commentary: Bauer takes baton

There's also this article in the Adirondack Daily Enterprise that describes some of the conditions of the permit issued by the Tupper Lake planning board, including the 7.25%:

The planning board permit includes a number of conditions, including setting up a fund that will take 7.25 percent of the gross sale price of each of the 18 lots in the first phase to be used for "operation and maintenance of and capital improvements to the Big Tupper ski area." The fund will be managed by three people: the developer or its designee, the entity operating the ski area and its designee, and the town supervisor and his or her designee.   Full article: Tupper Lake Planning Board OKs first phase of resort

Adk Jeff wrote

endoftheline wrote

Jeff, Just found a reference in the Tupper Lake Free Press, 10/24/12, page 4, letter from Foxman.

Thanks endo.  I couldn't locate it because those crappy archives aren't searchable.

Here's endo's link referencing the 7.25% escrow arrangement for Big Tupper improvements:

If ARISE does not open the ski area, we will do it when our business plan dictates. We have told the Tupper Lake Planning Board that we will set aside 7.25% of gross eastern great camp sales for the ski area and that the buyers of all but 68 of the approved 650 lots will be assessed $1,000 a year for lift tickets through the homeowners’ association. We want and need the ski area as much as the community.  Full article:  Commentary: Bauer takes baton

There's also this article in the Adirondack Daily Enterprise that describes some of the conditions of the permit issued by the Tupper Lake planning board, including the 7.25%:

The planning board permit includes a number of conditions, including setting up a fund that will take 7.25 percent of the gross sale price of each of the 18 lots in the first phase to be used for "operation and maintenance of and capital improvements to the Big Tupper ski area." The fund will be managed by three people: the developer or its designee, the entity operating the ski area and its designee, and the town supervisor and his or her designee.   Full article: Tupper Lake Planning Board OKs first phase of resort

interesting Re-reading some of the BS.  If the ski area is a centerpiece of the development then why are the first 68 buyers exempt from the $1000. assessment/yr for the ski area itself?  It's also telling that the fund for the ski area will be managed by "the developer or it's designee" and "the entity operating the Big Tupper ski area". Looks to me like the so called developer isn't even planning on being a part of the ski area.  I have heard local rumors about the developer trying to sell off or lease the ski area to some other entity to run it. Good luck with that.
  I really wish they would show some good faith to the locals and get the snowmaking back up and running and at least put in one new lift, I don't think that is too much to ask.

Some locals are excited to get it open again. That's reasonable. It takes money and then enough customers to keep it viable though, two things that have been lacking and contributed to it's closing in the first place. It will take time to have both elements return.

I like the idea of putting covenants of the property sales assuring lift tickets sales

That is what golf development properties do and I think it makes sense here.

Coach Z wrote

I like the idea of putting covenants of the property sales assuring lift tickets sales

That is what golf development properties do and I think it makes sense here.

In this situation, $1000 for lift tickets is just one more reason not to buy. If there is a miracle and they ever sell more than 68 units they will have to offer $1000 of free tickets per year to try and get people to buy.

If you can afford a great camp a grand for lifts tickets is pocket change

endoftheline wrote

I really wish they would show some good faith to the locals and get the snowmaking back up and running and at least put in one new lift, I don't think that is too much to ask.

You're talking about a couple million dollars. Does anyone have that kind of cash they want to throw into a project with no guarantee they'll ever see their money again? If you find someone like that, let me know.

Coach Z wrote

If you can afford a great camp a grand for lifts tickets is pocket change

They might be exempt.

mattchuck2 wrote

You're talking about a couple million dollars. Does anyone have that kind of cash they want to throw into a project with no guarantee they'll ever see their money again?

Or that the Mtn will even be viable. It's going to have to have customers. With Face and Gore just around the corner it's probably going to take people who live there to support it as it's main customer base.

Who of us would make it their main mtn ? Few to none.

mattchuck2 wrote

You're talking about a couple million dollars. Does anyone have that kind of cash they want to throw into a project with no guarantee they'll ever see their money again? If you find someone like that, let me know.

What they need is enough suckers to buy $70 Million in Great Camps.  That would generate $5 million (based on the. 7.25%) to be used for ski area improvements, which is about the bare minimum necessary to make Big Tupper into a viable ski area.

Adk Jeff wrote

mattchuck2 wrote

You're talking about a couple million dollars. Does anyone have that kind of cash they want to throw into a project with no guarantee they'll ever see their money again? If you find someone like that, let me know.

What they need is enough suckers to buy $70 Million in Great Camps.  That would generate $5 million (based on the. 7.25%) to be used for ski area improvements, which is about the bare minimum necessary to make Big Tupper into a viable ski area.

They will leave before they give up 7.25% of their sales.

Snowballs wrote

Who of us would make it their main mtn ? Few to none.

I would. Besides nostalgia for a lot of great days spent there as a kid (exploring woods, learning to ski bumps, etc.), I've always preferred smaller, badass mountains to larger, crowded, behemoths. Plus, my parents have a camp 20 minutes away.

And, for the whole ski instructing gig, it'd be perfect. Have you ever seen the ripping kids who come out of the Mad River Glen ski school? I'd love to be involved in building that kind of thing.

Unfortunately, it's looking like "rich benefactor" is the only way they'll ever get what they need. If I ever won the Mega millions, I'd buy the place, sink $8-10 million into improvements and happily lose a couple of hundred thousand dollars a year running it until I was back to where I am today. But I can't imagine that many other people would be willing to do that. Especially people who actually have that kind of money to throw around.

mattchuck2 wrote

I've always preferred smaller, badass mountains to larger, crowded, behemoths.

And that's why one of my favorites is McCauley, but the LE has not been kind this year, I'm still waiting.
What I find is that these little hills sometimes have some of the most interesting people floating around.

A very thorough review of the current status of the ACR project by NCPR reporter Brian Mann yesterday:
As community waits, Adirondack Club and Resort still faces big challenges

And as a follow-up, this article ran today:
No major investment in Big Tupper ski area this year

Bottom line is there are no sales contracts yet, but there are "letters of interest" on 4 parcels valued at a total of $10 million.  
As to the Big Tupper ski area, ACR developer Thomas Foxman states "I understand that everyone would like to see the ski area under construction. I think it's pretty clear that there won't be substantial construction this year. It's very likely that they'll see substantial construction the next year."
And so the can gets kicked down the road yet again...

But Boss, Dey ain't no can kickin,,,,,Dey gots to has sales first.

Adk Jeff wrote

A very thorough review of the current status of the ACR project by NCPR reporter Brian Mann yesterday:
As community waits, Adirondack Club and Resort still faces big challenges

And as a follow-up, this article ran today:
No major investment in Big Tupper ski area this year

Bottom line is there are no sales contracts yet, but there are "letters of interest" on 4 parcels valued at a total of $10 million.  
As to the Big Tupper ski area, ACR developer Thomas Foxman states "I understand that everyone would like to see the ski area under construction. I think it's pretty clear that there won't be substantial construction this year. It's very likely that they'll see substantial construction the next year."
And so the can gets kicked down the road yet again...

Good take Jeff.  All in all the article is probably the most objective report that has been published recently. As usual ACR is being very non specific about anything and they actually now seem to be back/soft pedaling timeline for the start of the project.  

There were more than a few doozies in there, I personally like the one where Lawson says the Great Camps may have to have generators(code for we have no money to put in infrastructure), I'm sure the owners of Great camps would love to listen to a massive generator running to power their secluded mansions.

I also like Lawsons' statement that he has spent 38 yrs building luxury homes for the rich and famous and he has a proven track record. So if he has done this for that long you think he'd have some capital to work with. Apparently his proven track record is for not paying 1. Fed income taxes 2. Property Taxes 3. Contractors and local businesses such as Fuel oil dealers, Appliance repairmen, Heating contractors, Supermarkets, Car repair Garages, Septic services, Electric bills(some even had to take him to small claims court)
And Big Tupper is still way on the back burner.  Same old Spin.  

Adk Jeff wrote

A very thorough review of the current status of the ACR project by NCPR reporter Brian Mann yesterday:
As community waits, Adirondack Club and Resort still faces big challenges

And as a follow-up, this article ran today:
No major investment in Big Tupper ski area this year

Bottom line is there are no sales contracts yet, but there are "letters of interest" on 4 parcels valued at a total of $10 million.  
As to the Big Tupper ski area, ACR developer Thomas Foxman states "I understand that everyone would like to see the ski area under construction. I think it's pretty clear that there won't be substantial construction this year. It's very likely that they'll see substantial construction the next year."
And so the can gets kicked down the road yet again...

Thanks for the updates. The story remains the same.

In the first link there is a great picture of the built out development that includes the area around the base of the ski area. Click on the picture to see what a NYS version of Stratton will look like - with out the massive skiing (of course).

I don't know anything about Tupper but after reading the articles and posts on here it seems like a real shot in the dark. My main question is are there really people interested in buying property there?

raisingarizona wrote

I don't know anything about Tupper but after reading the articles and posts on here it seems like a real shot in the dark. My main question is are there really people interested in buying property there?

Most likely not.

Tupper Lake is a remote location with the same or worse recreational opportunities that can be found closer to US population centers. I am sure they are counting on the Canadian market also, but with the Canadian $ at $.83US there is a real lack of purchasing power for Canadians. The ski area is small to medium and right now needs a multi-million dollar injection of funds including lifts and snowmaking.  In the winter it is about 1:30 from Gore to Big Tupper. Assuming a 4 hour drive from NYC to Gore, who wants to drive another 1:30 past Gore for marginal skiing (even after the upgrades)?

The town's current situation and desperation are sad, but people are not going to buy second homes in this area. The developers might sell the 20 or so great camps , but it will be almost impossible to sell the rest of the project.