Vail buys Peak

How long until they make a deal to buy the NYS owned mountains? Maybe they'll just buy the Adirondacks.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/peak-resorts-to-be-acquired-by-vail-resorts-for-11-00-per-share-1028371282

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/stocks-making-the-biggest-moves-premarket-equifax-vail-resorts-halliburton-cbs-disney-more.html

I just saw this on some news feeds.  This is big for local skiing. It will have a direct impact on Catskill ski areas.

Hunter will be even more crowded.

Plattekill will remain awesome.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Hunter will be even more crowded.

Plattekill will remain awesome.

don't know about that...I would imagine Vail will raise the tkt price to north of 100$..I'm sure they will test the price ceiling..

billyymc wrote

How long until they make a deal to buy the NYS owned mountains? Maybe they'll just buy the Adirondacks.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/peak-resorts-to-be-acquired-by-vail-resorts-for-11-00-per-share-1028371282

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/22/stocks-making-the-biggest-moves-premarket-equifax-vail-resorts-halliburton-cbs-disney-more.html

It will never happen, as it would require a constitutional amendment from NYS, which with the dis-function that NYS gov't operates, is impossible

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vail-resorts-acquire-peak-resorts-110000429.html

Seems like this kind of low end collection of resorts wouldn’t fit Vails demographic but this shows they are now the undisputed king of the ski world.  These collection of resorts near major cities will allow them to sell boat loads of Epic passes.  I thought Windham makes more sense to buy but I was wrong given this package.  

If you lived in Boston for example you have 4 resorts in NH and snow Okemo and Stowe in VT plus all the out west stuff.  Who can compete with that?

It will drive pass sales in ny, pa, Baltimore and wash dc.  Strenghtehens their Midwest package.  

The big question is will the Feds allow it.  They are encroaching into anti trust power.  I recall the the feds required Otten to spin off some resorts at one point and Epic has probably reached that point.

Z wrote

Seems like this kind of low end collection of resorts wouldn’t fit Vails demographic but this shows they are now the undisputed king of the ski world.  These collection of resorts near major cities will allow them to sell boat loads of Epic passes.  I thought Windham makes more sense to buy but I was wrong given this package.  

If you lived in Boston for example you have 4 resorts in NH and snow Okemo and Stowe in VT plus all the out west stuff.  Who can compete with that?

It will drive pass sales in ny, pa, Baltimore and wash dc.  Strenghtehens their Midwest package.  

The big question is will the Feds allow it.  They are encroaching into anti trust power.  I recall the the feds required Otten to spin off some resorts at one point and Epic has probably reached that point.

The three midwest ski resorts VR bought a while back aren't exactly high end either.  But they draw from Chicago, Detroit, and Minn/St. Paul.  Lots of people fly west for an annual ski vacation from that region.  The mid-Atlantic was the obvious gap for both VR and Alterra, meaning the folks who live in Pittsburgh, DC/Baltimore/NoVA, and Philly.  The talk around DC when Peak bought Snowtime (Whitetail, Liberty, Roundtop) was that Irv Naylor didn't want to sell to VR.  Whether or not that's true, hard to say.  But former Snowtime passholders in the DC area weren't happy with Peak this spring when there was no local pass option.

Alterra has Snowshoe, but that almost draws more from Atlanta than DC.

Folks in Ohio should be happy.  Although the skiers I know in Ohio don't bother to ski locally.  Not sure the Peak passholders in the midwest are that likely to go for a ski vacation out west more than once in their lifetime.

VR recently released a podcast about integration of newly acquired resorts.  The timing seemed odd when I found it but makes perfect sense now.

https://soundcloud.com/epicbynature/integrating-a-winning-team

Z wrote

The big question is will the Feds allow it.  They are encroaching into anti trust power.  I recall the the feds required Otten to spin off some resorts at one point and Epic has probably reached that point.

Whether the Feds object depends on how they define the market area. If it's "150 miles form NYC," this doesn't make any difference at all, it's just trading one operator for another. Maybe it has more effect if the market is defined by Boston. OTOH if they call the market "winter vacations" every ski resort in North America could merge because that would still be dominated by Caribbean islands and Disneyland.

I'm betting on this going through. It's been a long time since the government objected to a ski resort merger.

mm

The last objection was during one of the Otten ASC mergers was in New England

Asc back then owned Killington Mt snow Sugarbush atttish Sunday River and Sugarloaf.  They had to divest Canmore and something else I don’t recall

Vail is going to have a big % of areas close to Boston especially in NH now

MC2 5678F589 wrote

Hunter will be even more crowded.

Plattekill will remain awesome.

yawn....

At least Hunter won't be owned by the fucking OxyContin family anymore

Hunter, Mt snow, Okemo and Stowe will be even more crowded

Ikon has to do something maybe they already have the Jay Peak thing in the works.  They will have some pressure to make something happen in the next month or so

Orda is going see numbers go down unless they get on board in at least a limited way like they did with Max pass

Z wrote

The last objection was during one of the Otten ASC mergers was in New England

Asc back then owned Killington Mt snow Sugarbush atttish Sunday River and Sugarloaf.  They had to divest Canmore and something else I don’t recall

Vail is going to have a big % of areas close to Boston especially in NH now

When Vail had to separate from Arapahoe Basin a while back, well before Epic, was that due to Federal govt concerns?

For NH, Loon, Cannon, and Waterville Valley have pretty solid crowds from what I could tell in the last few years wandering around sampling New England skiing.  Boyne Resorts only recently bought back Loon, Sunday River, and Sugarloaf from the real estate owner.  They just did something raise $60 million.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/boyne-resorts-prices-private-offering-of-60-million-of-additional-7-250-senior-secured-second-lien-notes-300873798.html

Z wrote

Ikon has to do something maybe they already have the Jay Peak thing in the works.  They will have some pressure to make something happen in the next month or so

Ikon doesn't have to do anything. Vail's only big draw for New England prior to Peaks was Stowe and Okemo (and Sunapee, whatever to that). They are only adding on the Peaks areas, hardly a game changer, IMO. It just gets Ikon and Epic onto more equal footing in the east whereas before Epic only had two significant resorts and only one that was truly top tier.

I would argue that Ikon still has a better overall selection of New England mountains even with this addition for Vail. That shows my New England bias... I can see the addition of Hunter and Mount Snow and the PA areas making a big difference for NJ/NY/PA area skiers. But overall, I just see this as Vail catching up to Epic in the east.

Neither pass yet appeals to me... the best areas in the east (except Stowe) remain independent of the mega pass options.

riverc0il wrote

Z wrote

Ikon has to do something maybe they already have the Jay Peak thing in the works.  They will have some pressure to make something happen in the next month or so

Ikon doesn't have to do anything. . . .

I would argue that Ikon still has a better overall selection of New England mountains even with this addition for Vail.. . .

The people I know in the northeast who are now thinking that Epic is worth considering over Ikon aren't just thinking about locations they can drive to.  They are thinking about the destination resorts out west such as W-B or Vail/BC.  Unlimited access to a local mountain, compared to limited days for Ikon partners . . . can sway some people.

It's not about how many days people actually use a multi-resort pass, it's about how many they hope to get in.  An Epic pass is a few hundred dollars lesson than an Ikon pass.  Another factor for people who aren't positive about their ski trip plans.

I'm likely to stick with Ikon, but that's because I like the resorts in the Rockies on Ikon better.  At least until I can get a senior season pass with MCP reciprocal benefits.

dmc_hunter wrote

At least Hunter won't be owned by the fucking OxyContin family anymore

This may have had more to do with the deal than a lot of other things. The Sacklers are being driven into hiding.

riverc0il wrote

Neither pass yet appeals to me... the best areas in the east (except Stowe) remain independent of the mega pass options.

Ok I’ll bite.  Beyond WF and Cannon I’m having trouble thinking of resorts I’d want to ski that are not on Ikon or Epic passes.  

Personally I like the Ikon line up much better.  I’m tied to WF and then dependent on where my son is racing which I can’t predict in advance which has prevented me from pulling the trigger.   If ikon adds Jay though I’ll most likely buy one.

Z wrote

Ikon has to do something maybe they already have the Jay Peak thing in the works.  They will have some pressure to make something happen in the next month or so

Orda is going see numbers go down unless they get on board in at least a limited way like they did with Max pass

Windham is the last play for Ikon to get into the NYC market. Maybe Jiminy/Bromley too. Gore/WF/Jay are all to far from NYC, Boston and Montreal.  

The Max Pass add on to an ORDA senior pass was the sweetest deal ever, but it's not coming back. I suspect ORDA got burned by loss of season pass sales when it joined Max Pass.  Maybe VR or Alterra will cut ORDA a better deal if one of them want to dominate the booming Albany market.

mm

Z wrote

Ok I’ll bite.  Beyond WF and Cannon I’m having trouble thinking of resorts I’d want to ski that are not on Ikon or Epic passes.

Jay, Burke, Magic, Gore, Platty, MRG, Bolton, McCauley, Snow Ridge, Middlebury, Bromley, etc.

IKON & Epic are good for what they are, but holy shit, they aren't the be all/end all of skiing. I'd argue that they are a mass produced, commodified version of the skiing experience that takes away a lot of the things I like about ski areas.

Chipotle & Moe's make okay, mass produced Mexican food, but imagine saying something like "besides Qdoba, I'm having trouble thinking of a place to go for tacos and burritos!"

The small local joints have their advantages.