WF would be better without the union

it isn't.  the reply function here is a bit more complicated.  I just actually noticed the Quote button!!!

ScottyJack wrote

re-surfacing instead of going to WT would have been the better choice.  there was an awesome snowmaking window prior to this thaw.  No wind, single digits and high, high humidity.  They buried WT and lower skyward in days.  Not to mention covering the top of Victoria's in a couple hours...

However the weather models were showing this trend.  And you had a 4000 ticket give away so going to WT was not the best strategy..  Lots of the chevy folks were saying they were not impressed w/ Saturday's firm conditions.  I'd say a whole lot of them had no idea guns were blazing on WT.  The same guns that would have nicely re-surfaced WF and added to our base - getting us a better shot @ Easter.

If WF laid off the snow makers due to the weather change people would have (rightly so) gone nuts.   While I agree going to WT was not strategic, I disagree mightily laying off snowtribe was a better option.  The best option was re-surface, re-surface deep!

well put - you are right lay offs probably causing PR damage
good point about the chevy folks
see we can have a constructive discussion

and thanks for confirmation about the flow rates - I was sure about that point

winds picking up over here...  

Have a nice weekend!

Ooooh . . . Want to comment on this thread but probably shouldn't.  

ScottyJack wrote

you made me double check.  Def not in UMP but need to verify they are not under a DEC water withdrawal permit.

The West Branch of the Ausable River is classified as a wild river under the NYS Wild Scenic and Recreational Rivers Act..  It's amazing any water comes out of that river given the protection wild rivers are provided under this state law....

Thanks for the effort!

Face4Me wrote

ScottyJack wrote

you made me double check.  Def not in UMP but need to verify they are not under a DEC water withdrawal permit.

The West Branch of the Ausable River is classified as a wild river under the NYS Wild Scenic and Recreational Rivers Act..  It's amazing any water comes out of that river given the protection wild rivers are provided under this state law....

Thanks for the effort!

There is no DEC water withdrawal permit for Whiteface snowmaking.  The UMP, which governs the snowmaking water withdrawal, requires Whiteface to reduce snowmaking any time river flow is under 50 cubic feet per second (cfs) and eliminate water withdrawal any time the flow is under 36cfs.  

Based on flow not date.  

ScottyJack wrote

There is no DEC water withdrawal permit for Whiteface snowmaking.  The UMP, which governs the snowmaking water withdrawal, requires Whiteface to reduce snowmaking any time river flow is under 50 cubic feet per second (cfs) and eliminate water withdrawal any time the flow is under 36cfs.  

Based on flow not date.

Thanks.

Another "urban legend" debunked! I'll stop passing that story along!

The guns are going gon Look out below.  BOY YA.

Blowing W trail created a stir when they did it.  Were now two weeks and everything is back on track refreshing the hill.   The original mountain suffered a little because of the amount of resources to cover W.   Fact of the matter,  we, they have spent a lot of money on the W trail.  If they did not blow in that week of cold weather there is a real possibility that the chair would still sit idle.   The money spend on the expansion almost dictates that they have to get that up and going.  It is a part of Whiteface Mountain and should deserve the same attention that all the other signature trails get, as W is a signature trail.  They hill had a plan and stuck with it.  Good on them.

As far as the Union snow makers.  They can and are told not to come to work.   Even when the temps are up they still need some of them around to move and get setup for the cold weather.   I think the Union factor has nothing to do with why or why not the mountain is successful.  

We have the best hill in the East IMO.   It is an easier drive than any hill in Vermont when you are driving from NY NJ PA.  Yet they can't draw the customers numbers of there peers 40 miles away.  Why?  I would say it is because they are uneducated.  Snowmaking has been the great equalizer over the past 15 years.  Vermont certainly gets more snow but when you figure in the amount of man made that gets produced the differences of actual snow put on the trails is not what it used to be.   If there is blame to be assigned drop it where it belongs

tjf1967 wrote

The money spend on the expansion almost dictates that they have to get that up and going.

I can relate to that.

Read the first few posts in this thread. To me, it seems Aussie is concerned about good skiing and hopes for the best conditions for all.

If the snow crew had no trails to blow cuz of weather, couldn't they do other things around the hill until the weather changed ?

You Unusable skier should find a nice ski area in China and live there. I am a fast working union worker and take offense to you saying that the speed of union labor is slower. We bid non prevailing wage all the time and turn profits on it.  If everyone had your attitude most ski areas would close because only the elites could afford it and ski numbers would drop and then mountains would close.  

So is Face " blowing the Willie " or not ?

BTW, I see Whiteface is using the handle " the Face " in their adverts,  a phrase I started several years ago and they don't even give me credit. Sigh.

Reminds me of another term I recently coined that is currently in use and again, no credit for me and my exceedingly exciting verbage ........any thoughts MC2?

tjf1967 wrote

We have the best hill in the East IMO.   It is an easier drive than any hill in Vermont when you are driving from NY NJ PA.  Yet they can't draw the customers numbers of there peers 40 miles away.  Why?  I would say it is because they are uneducated.  Snowmaking has been the great equalizer over the past 15 years.  Vermont certainly gets more snow but when you figure in the amount of man made that gets produced the differences of actual snow put on the trails is not what it used to be.   If there is blame to be assigned drop it where it belongs

Why....because there are better conditions in VT 9 out of 10 times. Take a look at Stowes photo archive from a below average Jan. WF would be lucky to have that many powder days in a good year

Snowmaking the great equalizer? Then why is everyone bitchin about skiing on it

Your equating the amount of man made snow put on trails to pleasant skiing experience?

Gunny J wrote

You Unusable skier should find a nice ski area in China and live there. I am a fast working union worker and take offense to you saying that the speed of union labor is slower. We bid non prevailing wage all the time and turn profits on it.  If everyone had your attitude most ski areas would close because only the elites could afford it and ski numbers would drop and then mountains would close.

Gunny

odd that you would suggest that since you perceive me to be non union that I should go ski in China.  Given that WF is state owned and unionized its the closest thing that we have in the US to skiing in China.   This is meant to be a amusing comment on Gunny's choice of play on words not that I'm suggesting NYS is akin to China.  This disclosure is my attempt at humor to prevent me from being called more nasty names.  

skimore wrote

Why....because there are better conditions in VT 9 out of 10 times. Take a look at Stowes photo archive from a below average Jan. WF would be lucky to have that many powder days in a good year

Snowmaking the great equalizer? Then why is everyone bitchin about skiing on it

Your equating the amount of man made snow put on trails to pleasant skiing experience?

You def do not have better conditions 9 out of 10.  We do have awesome powder days - yesterday! And when MoNat drops the big ones, our terrain is superior.  

Plus we do not have to wait in 20-30 minute liftlines..   And we have a much, much lower percentage of the 1%-ers!  

And why do you care anyway?  If it's so good over there just enjoy it.  

I looked at those pictures at Stowe.  Seems there are a lot more photo stars over in Vermont.   We dont stop to take pictures of the powder we just ski it.  Not kidding.

There is nothing wrong with skiing on man made.  The problem is when it rains and then freezes it sucks....but at least you can still ski it.  If they did not make the snow there would be NO skiing.   I have been to Stowe quite a few times and have yet to hit it on a powder day.    Its always been set up like a rock when I am there.  

YES I am equating the amount of man made on trails to a good skiing experience.  When the base it there you dont need a two footer to create a powder day.  

I have nothing against your little hills over in the greens, I just prefer big ones.

" It's always been set up like a rock when I'm there."
Stowe just called and said to "Stay Away."
Lady in the liftline at Sugarbush: " Every time I come here it rains."
The liftline, in unison : " Then DON'T come here."
You know, it might be your fault. But, in your defence, it snowed when you were here.

Stowe what!  HAHAHAHAHAHHH

tjf1967 wrote

We have the best hill in the East IMO.   It is an easier drive than any hill in Vermont when you are driving from NY NJ PA.  Yet they can't draw the customers numbers of there peers 40 miles away.  Why?  I would say it is because they are uneducated.  Snowmaking has been the great equalizer over the past 15 years.  Vermont certainly gets more snow but when you figure in the amount of man made that gets produced the differences of actual snow put on the trails is not what it used to be.   If there is blame to be assigned drop it where it belongs

As others have mentioned, there is a lot of nonsense in this paragraph. But to write that WF is an easier drive than any hill in Vermont is just wrong. I live in NJ and WF takes around 4:30 and is 266 miles from my house. Stratton takes around 3:20 and is 214 miles, Mt Snow takes around 3:30 and is 200 miles, and Killington takes around 4:15 and is 250 miles. You can also include Okemo, Bromley, and Magic.  You also forgot another big mountain that is closer than WF -Gore (3:10 and 214 miles).

Whiteface is a great mountain and one of my favorites, but nobody from NYC metro area is choosing WF because of access and man made snow conditions. If that were the case WF would have a lot more visits than 200,000 range it sits in right now.

Sure wish I could be bitching about wat kind of snow I was skiing on. Man_0_made or not, it's still skiing and waaaaay better  than being laid up hobbling around on one friggin leg.

WE NEED SNOW!!!