Wet Guns

I'm pretty sure you could come up with a spec based on temperature, humidity, air/water ratio, pressure and nozzle type.

I watched some ski science thing a while back hosted by a bunch of guys with PhD's and they said no two types of snow were ever exactly the same but they had some methods for creating snows for their testing that were fairly consistent.

tjf1967 wrote

Can you really blow spec snow. It's water and air.

You can adjust the nozzles to make it wetter or drier. It’s still pretty inexact I think.

Harvey wrote

O right you big baby I moved it back.

Nobody responds to it in a political fashion, please.

Someone give Peetex a consulting job so he won't have time to hassle me.

Ok - just like the Grinch - my heart just grew.

BTW - I have plenty of work right now, in fact way too much. it’s making me grumpy- but maybe you couldn’t tell.

You turn the water on higher or lower. That's about it.

Really what is comes down to is production. That is measured in GPM. The more GPM, the more snow you can make. Compressed air is running at a fixed flow rate on most snow guns. It's either on, or off. Water flow is the variable, and is somewhat determined by the weather conditions, but also determines the snow quality. If you can run at a higher GPM, and make wet snow, you're still making more snow. The water suspended in that mostly frozen snow will ultimately freeze and become part of your base.

Yeah there is a formula if you want a certain kind of snow.  For rac8ng they want a really firm snow.  Probably the opposite of normal blown snow they want it wetter and denser.

tjf1967 wrote

You turn the water on higher or lower. That's about it.

Yes. Depending on the wet bulb temp, you adjust the water to air ratio. You can make it pretty light if you want to or you can turn up the water and it will be wetter and heavier.

Ethan Snow wrote

Really what is comes down to is production. That is measured in GPM. The more GPM, the more snow you can make. Compressed air is running at a fixed flow rate on most snow guns. It's either on, or off. Water flow is the variable, and is somewhat determined by the weather conditions, but also determines the snow quality. If you can run at a higher GPM, and make wet snow, you're still making more snow. The water suspended in that mostly frozen snow will ultimately freeze and become part of your base.

That’s true but nice fluffy light snow will get compressed by your buddies skiing on it and add to the bases as well right? You don’t have to fill the back yard with snot. Is Woodstream firing up the system yet Ethan?

Yeah I think the technical name is it wetter or dryer.  

tjf1967 wrote

Yeah I think the technical name is it wetter or dryer.

I don't know man, these guys were serious.  They all worked for big ski companies and were doing research on what makes skis faster and the interaction of snow types.  I believe the goal was setting the world speed record on skis.  Of course, this video was from the 80s or early 90s, and I'm sure there's much more knowledge these days if one were to actually look into it.

I think you could actually develop a control system to vary all the gun parameters based on sensor feedback and make some pretty consistent snow, although it would be very expensive.

Seems to me the WC race courses are slightly less hard than a skating rink.  I'm surprised they don't groom with a Zamboni.

WC race snow is water injected.  If you want to experience it the closest thing you will get is skiing Superstar soon after the race though the groom it like 5 times before it’s safe for the public to ski on.

Just saw this videos this morning on how coaches prep training courses for WC skiers

https://www.facebook.com/722754566/posts/10155092976754567/

It ain't rocket science. It's air and water. Let me put my Carhartt on and I'll tell ya whether or not it's good snow.

Query:  Maybe its because of global warming.  It's just not as cold as it used to be so when they blow snow its wetter.

tjf1967 wrote

Yeah I think the technical name is it wetter or dryer.

I think it's referred to as humidity.  And it's helmet man, pal.

Z wrote

WC race snow is water injected.

How is that done?

They turn the guns on sans the air.

campgottagopee wrote

It ain't rocket science. It's air and water. Let me put my Carhartt on and I'll tell ya whether or not it's good snow.

I ski mostly natural, so I know what I like by feel.  It's not hard to tell.



Talking consistency for racing and whatever...  

Water injected = snow cone turned to ice cube!

Nope, it’s not rocket appliances. That’s stuff is for NaySah, the guys that own space.

There’s an inappropriate joke regarding wet guns somehow but I’m coming up blank for now.

Actually... all rockets are is water... and water... just being put back together with a huge and violent release of energy.

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/technology/hydrogen/hydrogen_fuel_of_choice.html

That and the pesky inverted pendulum problem, but that's so 1940.

Brownski wrote

That’s true but nice fluffy light snow will get compressed by your buddies skiing on it and add to the bases as well right? You don’t have to fill the back yard with snot. Is Woodstream firing up the system yet Ethan?

So the idea is the more water you can run through your guns, the more product you are producing per time interval. Lighter snow will become base, but it takes longer to make a big pile of light snow. Also, since it's lighter it is more susceptible to wind, and it's harder to put it where you want it.

I'm working hard to try to bring Woodstream to life again. My dad had this idea over the summer that he was going to put in a bigger pond, and build a garage. The garage I was on board with, but the new pond, and excavation associated with it totally screwed up my entire snowmaking system. This fall I was really busy building the garage, and working a full time job, so operations at Woodstream are a little behind this year. Currently, the snowmaking pump is in my shop being overhauled to make sure it is ready for the long haul in the upcoming weeks. I've also been working on putting pipes back together that were removed earlier this summer in lieu of my dad's egotistical major excavation and forestry project. The guys who did the excavation were the same guys who built the new bridge at Belleayre last year, so they understood the concept of snowmaking, so they were able to re-locate my snowmaking shed, and install a valve in the new pond for snowmaking. One nice thing that worked in my advantage was that I had them doze the entire rope tow path smooth, so that was a huge improvement over the previously uneven path.


where I'm standing in this picture is where my snowmaking system previously existed.

My dad actually said to me "you probably aren't going to be able to make snow this year right?" Wasn't sure how to take that other than prove him wrong. I'll post pics of my long awaited startup in a week or two.