Whiteface Christmas week - logistical help wanted

Happy new season, everybody!  I continue my practice of long posts below, but mainly seeking WF Christmas week logistical advice for three days of skiing with younger kids.  Thank you in advance!!!

My family and another are heading up to LP with four 5-7 year olds in tow.  8 ppl total   I have skied at WF once over a long weekend years ago.   I am a strong skier, one 7 year old is strong for his age.  The other adults are probably straight intermediate skiers, and the five year olds are bunny slopers unless with an instructor or strong adult.

I have a few questions but any advice is welcome:

1.  On the first day everyone is likely going to get a 2 hour private, including some of the kids (some don't want ski school).    What is the best way to handle logistics of that day - park at the main area and request the kids' instructors in that area?   Five year olds are able to ride the short chair with an instructor.  
   A.   If that is the best way to go, is it best to drop off everyone and have dad s park in main area?   I remember the parking being kind of wierd .  

2.  On the last two days, I am assuming it is easiest to park at bear den, and move on from their through the lifts for relative ease of parking.  Right it wrong?   On those days some adults won't get to leave that area due to kids : )

3.  Any other tips welcome, including recs for instructors for adults and kids.  

Ps- conditions were fun at Belleayre on Friday.  For the time we were there, Seneca was not open, but the bunny slope, Iroquois, and deer run we're fun.   Nice view of platty from deer run.  

Pps - maybe a separate post, but my older one did the seasonal program at Belle last year and went from competent green skier to skiing everything on Belle including glades and ungroomed trails.  He really enjoys skiing but doesn't want to do the seasonal program because he wants to rest on the weekends.   As a result we will ski a lot less this season but I am taking the view it is better not to force anything.   Skiing (and any kids activity) should be fun!   I will want to try and do the same program in a year or two so my younger one (turning 5 in December) becomes a competent skier.  I figure at that point even if my kids only ski 5 times a year they will have a base of knowledge to pursue skiing or not....

They plan to have all lessons both adult and kids go out of Bear Den aka kids kampus this season.  There is a new lodge over there with even a bar.  I have not seen it yet.  If you are doing lessons definately plan on parking up there.

As is typical of Orda they are jumping the gun doing this move without a lift upgrade so expect considerable lift lines on the Bunny Hutch for the Holidays if not in lessons.  I’d advise against parents trying to teach your own kids in general unless you really know what you are doing.  Put them in a program and go enjoy your day. Your comment that the kids are Bunny slope skiers unless with a strong adult concerns me.  You don’t make them better only they can do that thru coaching and repetition of low angle terrain-see the articles I’m linking below.   Don’t put them on too much pitch and at WF that can easily happen.  In short if thier wedge gets biggest in response to more pitch it’s too steep and you are hindering thier ability to get better.

I love WF but reading your group make up makes me wonder if it really is a good fit for your group.  Gore might be better with much more true blue and green terrain.


I’m not teaching at WF this season so I can enjoy watching my son race.  If you PM me I can make some instructor recs
I also enjoy showing strong skiing NYskiblog folks around WF from the perspective of a local so touch base with me and we can meet up.

Below are some blog articles I wrote in the past that might help you

https://nyskiblog.com/coach-z-ski-vacations-with-kids/

https://nyskiblog.com/skiing-with-kids/

Respectfully, I disagree with Z!  You guys will have a great time at Whiteface.  As I’m sure you know from planning a trip with multiple families, ski terrain is only one factor to be considered.  Are there other mountains out there that have a higher percentage of beginner terrain for green skier?  Sure!  No matter who’s in your group or where you go.....it’s likely there will always be a “better” mountain out there for someone.  But that doesn’t mean Whiteface won’t be a great trip for your group!  There will be plenty of terrain to be skied for all, including the little legs.  As we know, skiing only takes up part of the day, and for friends and skiers who aren’t planning on stomping the mountain “hard corps” style....all the non-skiing things that some curmudgeons around here like to complain about will make your trip great.  I also assume you will enjoy spending time in Placid with your friends?  That is always great, better than at any other Eastern resort.  Where are you staying?

As Z indicated, things are in flux with lessons and such, with everything run out of Bear Den this year.  So, that will be your base of operations.  The new lodge over there is gorgeous, and that was before the bar went in.  We used to enjoy camping there when our kids were small, before all the new space and renovations.  I’m sure it will be a great place to hang now.  

One word about parking.....think about end of day.  We always like to finish up the day in the Cloudspin Lounge with a few drinks (strong word of advice:  get the Bloody Mary!!!!!).  If you plan on doing that just make sure someone moves the cars over from Bear Den.  Late in the day (after 3, I think) you can use the valet lot.

As for private lessons, I HIGHLY recommend Bill Fisher if you can get him.  I think he’s taken on more responsibility the last few years, so I’m not sure how much of his day he spends on snow.  However, he is great.  As a 45 year old expert skier he was able to up my game .....and he’s been equally great with the kids (ours were older) when we have done a family private.

Excited for you guys!

Agree with JTG on Bill Fisher but he is now the running the adult staff so I’m not sure how much he will be available.  If I recall correctly I hooked JTG up with Bill to start with.

My suggestion counter his is to stay up at the new bar at Bears Den.  There’s going to be a huge traffic jam getting out of there at 3 to 4 pm.  Last year on peak weekends it took 30 mins to get to 86 from Bears Den lot and everyone has to make a left at the stop sign by the main lodge.  Access out is a major issue that I don’t think Orda has even thought about when they decided to send more business up to the new lodge.  Stay up there until the traffic dies down and enjoy the new bar.

JTG is right that nothing in the East compares with LP for other things to do and is great for a family vacation.  No matter how much fancification they plaster on the base area WF is very limited in true green terrain.  Even green Boreen the main easier route off the facelift has a headwall that would be a Black at Belleryre and was a jump in the ladies DH course in the Olympics.  

WF has a lot of beginner terrian.  The trails off the bear chair is great beginner terrian. Easy street off the face lift gives beginners a long easy run especially by goining left before last pitch of boreen so u catch bear den terrain.

The new lodge at bear den is killer.  The bar is setup so you look out a giant window to the view of the summit slides!  

I would base out of there.  Christmas has been off the charts crowded so best to arrive early. Only one bridge across the river so things do get congested.  

Ps:  not directed to jtgbro

I love this forum. Great advice, guys, and thank your for taking the time to give your thoughts!  

While dealing with traffic on the hutch will be interesting, having all the lessons out of bear den will make kid coordination easier.  

JTG is correct - this is a five day trip to LP in part because while I love Gore, it cannot compete with WF for off-snow activities.

Some of the kids won't want to do ski school, so after the lessons, we'll ski together at whatever common denominator (sometimes for my four year old that means a max of two hours skiing).  

Can you guys advise on Olympic-related or LP activities?  For example I know about the ice rink and vaguely know about the luge rides.   We will be walking distance in LP main street at a house rental.  I think we have a handle on restaurants.  Plan is to cook breakfast, bring lunch, and eat out for dinners.  

Z, is your wife teaching this year?

Z wrote

If I recall correctly I hooked JTG up with Bill to begin with.

Actually......half a dozen years ago, on MLK weekend, I decided to take a group lesson.  As the only expert taking a group lesson I ended up by myself with Bill for two hours.  He was great, and after that we did a family private with him a couple of times.  You helped me get back to the right Bill!

He is great, and I meshed well with him largely because we are the same age.  He knows how I learned back in the day, the same way he did.  We could speak the same language, and he really helped me develop my carving technique.

DomB wrote

I love this forum. Great advice, guys, and thank your for taking the time to give your thoughts!  

While dealing with traffic on the hutch will be interesting, having all the lessons out of bear den will make kid coordination easier.  

Z, is your wife teaching this year?

The idea is as you said to make things easier for families with everything in one place.  The lodge is supposed to be nice.  I’ll have to get over and look at it once the open terrain connects things in the next couple weeks.

It will work better once they replace the triple there.  It should be a HSQ but Orda is planning to go cheap and put in a conveyor loading fixed grip.  Huge mistake imo.  It will stop too much with lower end skiers not being able to get hucked off at the top at 10+ mph.  It will look like a Warren Miller film in the unloading zone.  Ultimately they will slow it down.  Much better to go detachable.  

My wife has moved onto other pursuits.

Just a quick note, for those based out of the Bear Den lodge who are NOT skiing the Bear Den trails.  It’s an easy walk up to the trail that cuts over to the main lodge.  So, if the line is long there is no need to actually ride the lift over there if you want to ski from the main base.

Scotty
Did you recently get hired by Orda marketing?

Bear pod is a nice novice terrain pod but it is short, serviced by a old fixed grip double, and might as well be at Gore if you are at Kids Kampus as a novice since it’s on the other side of everything.  

The Boreen cut off does help but it’s very narrow and a low priority for snowmaking.  You still then have to ski the bottom steep pitch on Boreen / Brookside as well which is too steep for most novices.  Easy way off top of Facelift is also much too narrow for novices

I’d say I have a lot more experience to how novices see and experience WF than just about anyone posting on here

Here is my fix to these issues so it doesn’t seem I’m just bitching with no way to fix things
Widen easy way
Widen lower Boreen
Widen Boreen cutoff
All these will require a commitment to move some serious earth

Widen what was Silver Shoot - who knows what silly animal name marketing came up with for it now
Blow snow on what was Medalist - again the brain trust in marketing reamaned a perfectly good Olympic themed name- they don’t blow that or even groom it  sometimes but if it has snow you can use it to get to home run routing around the bottom pitch of Boreen

None of this is rocket science and has been proposed to management by me in the past to no avail

Easy street was widen this fall

Off hill activities in LP

Toboggan chute on Mirror Lake

Ice skating at speed skating oval and on plowed track on mirror lake

Bob sled runs at mt van ho

Free sleding on golf course hill

Olympic museum in the olympic center on main street

Pond hockey on mirror lake

Santa’s workshop/north pole in wilmington

Adirondack wildlife refuge in wilmington

Day trip to tupper lake to the wild center (bad weather option)

Thank you!

I concur with the off hill activities especially is the weather is not good. Most young kids are not die hard skiers. A change of pace if its bitter cold or rainy will go a long way to making them want to return.

tom

SJ left out the Jumping Complex.  Tour/elevator to top is interesting.  Not sure of your dates, but there is jumping and fireworks on the 29th.

Do they still do the snow tubing there?  I couldn’t find a schedule.

Fireworks at the jumping complex are a good after dinner thing. I think it's free for season pass holders.
  Treat yourself to breakfast at Dancing Bears.
  The kids will ace that headwall on Boreen by the end of the week.

The fireworks at the jumping complex are part of the New Years jumping competition.  Well worth dressing warm at seeing it.  

It is on Dec 29 this year

https://www.whiteface.com/events/new-years-ski-jump

Yes. Def hit up jumping complex event.  Lots of fun. Really cool event to watch live

We’ve done jumping and fireworks there (WC Freestyles over MLK weekend) and it’s a lot of fun.  Beware.....it can get COLD!  We brought “Daddy Snapples” with us (gin and tonic in a Snapple bottle) and they froze into slushees as we watched.

Not enough gin