Whiteface Conditions (2015 - 2016)

Sno that's actually a good point, think of all the snow melt coming off the mountain, why not catch it and save it rather than dump it back into the ocean..  The real question is would the APA allow this.. have you done any digging around to see what they would say?

Adk Jeff wrote

Coach Z wrote

Would I like more snow - yes
does it make economic sense to do so - probably not

Keep in mind that doubling Gore's and WF's snowmaking capacity would merely put them on par with their competition.  If you want to keep skiers coming to the Adirondacks, it's a necessity.  

Remember the Freestyle World Cup event that was cancelled in January?  WF couldn't make enough snow in time. Here's what Ted Blazer had to say:

“ORDA’s goal is to always provide the best venue and conditions possible for any and all events. Given the recent weather challenges, ORDA felt that there just was not enough time to prepare Whiteface Mountain and the Olympic Jumping Complex to accommodate this World Cup. We look forward to hosting the best freestyle athletes in the world in the future.”

The event was held at Deer Valley instead.  I wonder what the economic impact of losing that event was.

its shocking how few people actually watch that event - maybe a hundred

all the teams do have to come and stay and eat somewhere but still the impact may actually be less than a big race with 150 kids in it

The DEC and APA would have a coronary if WF even suggested building a retaining pond.  It would never even be considered.

Coach Z wrote

The DEC and APA would have a coronary if WF even suggested building a retaining pond.  It would never even be considered.

^^This I agree with.

Snoloco, 300 vs. 240 acres isn't much of a difference. Are you telling me that Whiteface is only 60 skiable acres bigger than Hunter? I don't dig. Keep in mind WF has a much better aspect than Hunter.

If Whiteface could build a mid-mountain retaining pond, they could greatly increase efficiency. You would not believe the energy it takes to pump water 3400 vert. I'm not going to post the numbers again, but you can read all about it in my last convo with Sno in my Trip Report. They should blast a lake out of that hillside, and that will allow a gravity-fed system to the lower mountain, and greatly decreased horsepower for the top of the mountain. In fact, if they got newer HKDs, or Snowlogics, they could run them toward the bottom of the mountain with no pump, and Small amounts of air that could be produced by basically a Home Depot hand carry compressor. Pocket change to run. Right now, even the VFD compressors, can only be turned down so low, and they eat up huge amounts of energy. They pretty much have to run Rats to let out all that excess air. If they got some screw compressors that shut off at a certain pressure, and used low-e guns, they could actually run off pressure in the lines for quite some period of time, and the compressor would not have to run constantly. A lot of these mountains are in denial that you can make snow MUCH more efficiently, and I don't get it. They are living in the stone age. I think having a low-e system that sips power is a good idea even if it makes snow slower. There is nothing wrong with having a few guns going every day it's below 32 as long as your electric bill isn't through the roof. Whiteface has to constantly bleed their system of air when it's running. Plattekill on the other hand, you can casually go up to an air hydrant and get air out of it in August. Just don't leave it open!

Ethan Snow wrote

Snoloco, 300 vs. 240 acres isn't much of a difference. Are you telling me that Whiteface is only 60 skiable acres bigger than Hunter? I don't dig. Keep in mind WF has a much better aspect than Hunter.

Whiteface only advertises 283 acres, but it skis bigger.  I'm pretty sure that this includes trails only and excludes The Slides and other glades.  To my knowledge, everything on that mountain has plumbing except Empire and Blazers Bluff.  

Having a retention pond mid mountain would help, but as Z said, they APA and DEC would never let that happen.  If there were one, it would make the system more efficient definitely.  The benefit of a Low E system to me is that it can make more snow with less energy and $$$, which means that mountains can be a bit more aggressive with their terrain expansion.  IMO, upgrading from ground guns to tower guns helps the most as you save set-up time and can make more snow with less labor, which means that crew can monitor another trail as well and even more terrain open.

I definitely agree with you. If it were up to me, I would eliminate all ground guns, and air/water guns on all terrain except for the maybe the summit, and parts of lookout. When it comes to making snow up there, it's serious business, and just being able to make enough snow is more important than how much energy you use. Especially when you consider the wind factor, and much lower pressure up there. Adding a booster pump for Low-E guns up there is only more energy spent, with probably little savings at that point.

I do think there is a place for ground guns in some cases, but now both HKd, and Snow Logic make very efficient ground guns. Killington has a ton of them. With sufficient water pressure they can make just as much as a Rat. Everything below Little WF has plenty of pressure.

However, I would not get rid of the air/ water guns completely. On a bad season like this one, if you are desperate to get as much terrain open as possible in marginal temps Ie. Christmas break this year, then Air/water guns are a good plan B.

Those events bring in 10-15 different teams and they are usually during the week for an entire week.  The NYSEF races are another revenue stream that the town appreciates.  Cumulatively over the season I would think the big races take the rev. pie, for the particular week that the event is in town they generate much more revenue.

To be clear I think Whiteface and pretty much every mountain in the North East had a pretty shitty hand dealt to them this year.  Staying in the game and making the best of it really shows who has the intestinal fortitude to be a ski resort in the North East.  KUDOS for making a shitty winter ski pretty good.  

By the toll booth on the memorial highway there is a pond.  I don't think it holds enough water but it could with some digging and expanding. Bring the water across to mountain to the Wilmington trail.  Feed the lookout pod as well as kids campus.  The are so many barriers to overcome it will never happen but that would be the most efficient way to feed that particular pod.

But how are the CONDITIONS! Inquiring minds need to know.

Very good. This weekend will be a corn fest.  

Who else was at Whiteface this weekend? I was there friday, and Saturday, and it was the best skiing I had all year. And it looks like the end of the good stuff. I know everyone has seen crappy Go Pro footage, but here's just a little from my weekend. This was taken by my brother, and please excuse his snowboarder friend who has never seen a big mountain before. If nothing else, skip to 2:50. For the record, I did do the big jumps. But my Go Pro died when we got around to doing them. Sounds lame, but it's the truth. https://youtu.be/OV3t3EGQF8s

Whiteface skied well today.  Hero snow that bumped up as the day went on.  It was all good!  Blue skies, great snow no lifelines and temps in the 50's.  You better get out there and harvest the corn snow while you can.  It is melting fast!

This is a late conditions post for Sunday because I just got home...ties my second best day of the year with Saturday, which makes this my best two day weekend of the year.  I wait until the courd is gone (it's all about the Bumps...and suds) this time of year so I got to the mountain at 11.  Essex was closed so I headed to Wilderness.  Nice corn but no real bumps so I did Northway to the Summit and then Sky again and again until I need a shorter run.  Skyward had nice big soft bumps, but Mountain run was a close second.  Best Fat Guy Powder Day of the Year
Whiteface is in better shape than Gore and there was hardly anyone there

tjf1967 wrote

By the toll booth on the memorial highway there is a pond.  I don't think it holds enough water but it could with some digging and expanding. Bring the water across to mountain to the Wilmington trail.  Feed the lookout pod as well as kids campus.  The are so many barriers to overcome it will never happen but that would be the most efficient way to feed that particular pod.

Just beyond the toll booth is a beautiful North facing natural bowl coming down from the peak of Ester, just say'in

Wasn't able to get away that last two weekends which I know SHOULD have been my farewell to Gore and/or Whiteface...anyone have any thoughts on the weekend coming up?

Gore looks pretty trashed, especially from photos of the base last weekend someone posted here, and I see Chatiemac is closed this week.  I'm thinking Whiteface might still be worth a few hours...

Coverage wise, from what I've read, Whiteface still looks to be in decent shape compared to others.  The slap in the face, insult to injury fact after this crappy winter is that winter COLD (temps probably won't get above freezing on the hill from Friday am to Tuesday pm, could see single digit summit highs Friday and Monday, with nasty wind chills) will likely make for some crappy loose and frozen granular conditions once the mountain locks up.  In my best Seinfeld Soup Nazi impression......No spring skiing for you!!

Having a great day at WF.  Have been between the Summit and Little WF double chair.  They got about 1.5" yesterday up top which helped cover the ice.  Softening up nicely in the sun.  Bottom half is corn then slush - only skiied it on way in to lunch.And contrary to the soup nazi it feels springlike!