Whiteface Improvements 2016-2017

Hoyt's is named after a long time WF employee who is now deceased.

raisingarizona wrote

I'm guessing it's for marketing and having control over the area helps cut down on rescue missions but that's just a hunch from an outsider.

Yea that's my guess as well. There's no way they could just open them, there would be too many people flopping around in there. My understanding is they have slid as well, so that wouldn't be cool either. But I've also seen Hourglass slide up on Mansfield , and that's not patrolled....... anymore I guess we truly do live in a bubble wrapped sue happy society. Sad, very sad.

Snowballs wrote

Hoyt's is named after a long time WF employee who is now deceased.

Snowballs, the reports of his death are greatly exaggerated.

It's named after Jim Hoyt Sr. who is still on ski patrol.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

How did the trails at WF get their names? Paron's, Hoyt's?

Paron's is named after a former WF mountain manager.

Opps.

campgottagopee wrote

raisingarizona wrote

I'm guessing it's for marketing and having control over the area helps cut down on rescue missions but that's just a hunch from an outsider.

Yea that's my guess as well. There's no way they could just open them, there would be too many people flopping around in there. My understanding is they have slid as well, so that wouldn't be cool either. But I've also seen Hourglass slide up on Mansfield , and that's not patrolled....... anymore I guess we truly do live in a bubble wrapped sue happy society. Sad, very sad.

I don't see why they couldn't be taken off the map and made "at your own risk".  They would have to be taken completely off the map though and not counted as terrain.  Whiteface can't advertise them if they do that.  Also, because they are semi lift served instead of full hike to, it allows people to get in there easier who wouldn't have otherwise.  

The slides are awesome and almost entirely unique. Why do you want to change them?

If you "take them off them map" do you remove the summit chair too?

I never advocated changing them.  I just said that it was possible to do.  I don't ski them, at least not yet, so I have no reason to complain about the current state they are in.

RA was bitching that he can't go in there any old time he feels like it and has to wait for Patrol to open it.  NEWSFLASH!! There are hundreds if not thousands of similar (if not better) areas of ski terrain in the backcountry that once can access without the rules that WF patrol puts in place!!  Go ski one of those.  Or are you going to complain about the WF slides because you want free unlimited access to dangerous terrain that is somewhat accessed by a lift?  Maybe you'll finally realize that skiing at a resort and riding a lift isn't below you, because you're complaining about one set of slides off a lift that you aren't able to ski, instead of going and hiking the hundreds that aren't patrolled.

The slides on the top of Stowe are not on the map and not patrolled.  They also don't advertise them either as they are not part of the ski area.  WF gets to advertise The Slides, and for that reason, they also have to patrol them and only open them when safe to do so.

snoloco wrote

RA was bitching that he can't go in there any old time he feels like it and has to wait for Patrol to open it.  NEWSFLASH!! There are hundreds if not thousands of similar (if not better) areas of ski terrain in the backcountry that once can access without the rules that WF patrol puts in place!!  Go ski one of those.  Or are you going to complain about the WF slides because you want free unlimited access to dangerous terrain that is somewhat accessed by a lift?  Maybe you'll finally realize that skiing at a resort and riding a lift isn't below you, because you're complaining about one set of slides off a lift that you aren't able to ski, instead of going and hiking the hundreds that aren't patrolled.

Haha! Throttle back young man!

I definitely never said anything like that. I pointed out why the current policy makes sense for the ski area management. I also love lift laps on the right days and hanging out with the community.

Yes, the way they have it now makes the most sense for the ski area.  For the terrain to be "opened up" would mean that it would have to be out of bounds and at your own risk, like it is at Stowe.  That's great for experienced backcountry skiers like you, but it means that the ski area cannot advertise the terrain (like WF does for The Slides) because it is not part of the ski area unless it is in bounds.

Johnnyonthespot wrote

How did the trails at WF get their names? Paron's, Hoyt's?

One would think that Essex (county), Northway (interstate), Excelsior (on state flag), Empire (empire state), Thruway are named after NYS things.  Other probables:

MacKenzie:  Ronald MacKenzie, Olympic organizer/ski hall of fame

Draper's Drop:  Art Draper, oversaw much of the construction of Whiteface

Blazer's Bluff:  Ted Blazer, current ORDA boss maybe?

Rand's Last Stand:  Jay Rand, former G.M. (he was around for Lookout)

Ugh.  I feel like I'm rivaling Snoloco.  Jeopardy, here I come.

Nothing wrong with that.  Sno probably knows more about whiteface than I do.  

tjf1967 wrote

Nothing wrong with that.  Sno probably knows more about whiteface than I do.

Except what really matters......how to ski it!

Riva Ridge - in honor of the 10th Mtn Division!!  

I lobbied for Belvedere Boulevard for the Wilmington trail.  Anyone know the significance of Belvedere?  

Can you figure it out w/out google CampPatriot?   

The Belvedere is my favorite restaurant in Saranac Lake so yea no problem

And yes otherwise ScottyTheWiseOneJack

Cool info. Thanks guys. I remember an old post where someone mentioned a trail named after a former employee.
Scotty, how do they vote for these things? Is it insiders only, public, or you have to be on the board?

D.B. Cooper wrote

Johnnyonthespot wrote

How did the trails at WF get their names? Paron's, Hoyt's?

One would think that Essex (county), Northway (interstate), Excelsior (on state flag), Empire (empire state), Thruway are named after NYS things.  Other probables:

MacKenzie:  Ronald MacKenzie, Olympic organizer/ski hall of fame

Draper's Drop:  Art Draper, oversaw much of the construction of Whiteface

Blazer's Bluff:  Ted Blazer, current ORDA boss maybe?

Rand's Last Stand:  Jay Rand, former G.M. (he was around for Lookout)

Ugh.  I feel like I'm rivaling Snoloco.  Jeopardy, here I come.

You are right on all counts above.

Concerning the slides.  They are treated like sidecountry at many resorts out West.  The Patrol opens the gates / access based on when they are safe to ski.  I have been in them when they are marginable when they needed some employees to volunteer to ski cut them to lower avy potential and I can tell you they are scary as hell when they are like that.  We were only able to take one lap but I would have declined a second if offered.  If open to the general public like that would be people getting seriously hurt.

I think that the system is working pretty well currently.  The peeps, shovel and probe system is keeping the volume manageable when they are in their most to more difficult condition.  They do get poached but that is usually from the Highway.

Back to the old days before they opened the Slides as part of the ski area they were illegal to ski from the ski area and only could be accessed from the highway legally.  It was then and still is a firing offense for an employee to ski them when they are not open.  I recall a young instructor skied them and fell down one of the waterfalls hurting himself, losing a ski that was lost for good, and then getting fired. All in all a pretty bad day for that kid.

Since I'll be skiing mostly WF for 4 years, I might actually get the chance to ski The Slides.  I don't think I'd be comfortable going in there as a first timer unless it was open without requiring the extra gear.

It sucks when ski patrol has to use their already stretched staff to go out on a rescue for people that got in over their heads. Imagine what an inconvenience that sort of thing is during a peak holiday period. Those folks get paid to take care of the ski areas customers, not some yahoo with zero bc experience making bad choices. It's pretty selfish of the skier to go ahead and take those sorts of risks, stuff happens but in most cases it's because there is a lack of experience and knowledge/skill. Here at Snowbowl we have some beautiful sidecountry right off the summit lift. You come off the unloading ramp, make a right and you can be out the gate for a 3500 vertical foot tree skiing run that dumps you out onto the access road where you can leave a car for the shuttle or simply hitch a ride. The area has a set of problems though, 1. it's south facing so it needs a really big set of systems to get things safe for skiing, if storms are sporadic then the sun beats the snot out of it and dangerous logs and pungy sticks can be hidden just below the surface of fresh snow. On a lot of years where I feel it's too unsafe for fun skiing people are being pulled out for femoral and tibia/fibula breaks. 2. You can get back to the area doing shorter laps but you need to know when to cut out, miss the mark and you get pulled into a boulder and log filled gully that becomes separated from the area by a solid 80 foot tall cliff band. If you know the mountain or at least looked at a topo map before your adventure (as any experienced person would know to do) it's easy to see that by just continuing down hill will pop you out on the road and this brings us to 3. The Phoenix factor. These are the ones that see the tracks, head out the gate and don't have a clue where they are going. They tend to get into that gully with the rocks and logs, then become dehydrated, disorientated and you get the idea. They start walking around in circles and spend the night out there. This is when the ski patrol (they know the area best and ski) have to work with the SARS folks and go save the Phoenix goof from themselves. This costs the ski area $. This is why I was saying I get the decision and policy that WF has, I'm not sure where Sno got the idea that I was being an "elitist BC snob", that was some funny imaginary shit right there. Anyways, the skiing out there is super rad when it's in. The little crew I ski with tends to go one gully further than the masses for long fast big mountain tree skiing. we can do laps out here all day long and only cross our own tracks. 3 runs on a good day are the norm. This vid is of that zone.

So you know what I am referring to?  If so,   You are a patriot.