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Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

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ml242

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

snoloco wrote

I have been highly disappointed by the ski bowl ever since it was built. At first I was excited to ski on it, but it never opened in 2011-2012 when I tried. If a ski area can't open a trail pod an entire year, that trail pod shouldn't exist. The ski bowl should have been done right with an HSQ, ample snowmaking capacity, proper grading on 46er, and good connections to the rest of the mountain, or they should have waited till they had the money to build it that way. No expansion should ever be built with the assumption that it will grow in, that is a very big money drain to do that. If you are gonna do something, do it right, or not at all.

There are whole seasons you can't ski the Vallee Blanche in Chamonix, but it's still on everyones top ten favorite runs in the world.

(and that is the only time you will ever see the humble snow bowl compared to Cham).

High speed Quads cost twice as much and wear out twice as fast. Pass.

PeeTex

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by ml242

Crotch, I am sure you are a legend in your own mind. Being a PSIA instructor I am sure you are a very good skier. Being a Whiteface employee I am sure you get a lot more vertical than I do. And I can guarantee that you ski way more groomed terrain than I do. My average day may only be 5 or 6K ft, that's what happens when you rarely ride a lift or buy a ticket. You want to ski with me one day, sure - I'll go easy, I'll only ask you to drag your ass to the top of Lower Wolf Jaw or Wright. I won't ask you to climb Macomb or Gothics or Saddleback. I won't ask you to spend a few snowy nights in the woods. I am sure you would do fine on the way down, probably make it down well before me, but how will you do on the way up? Will you know how to make sure the terrain is safe? But not to worry, I am not a total A-hole, I won't leave you to die in the woods - I've never left anyone in the woods yet and I sure as hell won't let you drop into an unstable slide cause I don't want to have to dig your sorry ass out - which I would without hesitation.

Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.

Harvey

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

Administrator

This post was updated on .

Ski Bowl. Ski Bowl. Ski Bowl. (Snowbowl is in VT).

The Ski Bowls days have been limited because it didn't have snowmaking in year one. There are many mountains in the US that would not open without snowmaking, including Mountain Creek.

Snowmaking is being added a bit at a time. There are now tower guns on Cedars etc.

It's not realistic to say "we won't put the lift in until we have the cash to run guns up and down the entire slope." If the Gov gives you the cash for a lift you take it, build it, and you run the lift when you can.

In the link I posted above we skied the trees at the bowl BEFORE the Men in Black had done ANY work on he bowl. Somehow the tree spacing and lack of undergrowth occurs there "naturally." (Probably has something to do with logging but what do I know.)

Gore has nearly unlimited water and a major pumping facility at the Bowl. The lift and lodge are there. The only thing missing is plumbing and it's coming. Gore is huge and the Bowl is a big part of that.

BTW I LOVE the fact that the Ski Bowl has a fixed grip. It helps ensure that you can find a parking spot, and a fresh line.

Sno! As long as I run this insane asylum you are welcome to your opinion - keep it coming. And like I said, odds are good that Barkeater will become a trail. This new glade may be a way to soften the blow.

(frk that might have been the best run of the day, but thinking about it I think the run before may have been even better. Show the forum some love and make that pic your avatar!)

"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp

Snowballs

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

Banned User

In reply to this post by snoloco

snoloco wrote

I am not going to beat up on you, I agree 100%. What Gore needs is better connections between mountain areas. What they don't need is more useless glades that are closed 80% of the time. Gore already has a ton of glades and so many things that were supposed to be actual trails were cut as glades instead. Cutting Barkeater to a snowmaking equipped and groomed trail will make the ski bowl so much more useful. I rarely go to the ski bowl because I hate Pipeline with a passion. I come to Gore to ski, not walk. If I want to walk I can go on a hike for a lot less money. Having better connections between mountain areas with snowmaking equipped, groomed trails is going to be way better for the general public. Plus many glades are seldom open, so when they are closed, they don't help at all. Luckily Gore continues to move in the right direction with more connector trails like Twister's Little Sister, Crystal, Tower 6, and Showoff to get from Burnt Ridge to the main base area, and Hedges to get from Burnt Ridge to the North Side. Hopefully Barkeater is next to make the Ski Bowl much more connected to the rest of the mountain. There are plenty of other glades on the mountain and that will improve the underutilized ski bowl drastically. Many people don't know it even exists now. I now refer to the ski bowl project as the "mother of all mistakes". All this money spent on a seldom open trail pod that no one uses. I would have much rather seen the ADK Express and High Peaks Chair replacements happen earlier and had more terrain on Burnt Ridge. For me to stop referring to the ski bowl as the "mother of all mistakes", they need to find a way to get more people to use it. I'm pretty sure that they will do this before long by making Barkeater a trail. Now I'm really gonna get beat up.

Gotta say it yet again, Sno makes a lot of sense. He's really hitting his stride. Go Sno !

ml242

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by Harvey

Harvey wrote

Ski Bowl. Ski Bowl. Ski Bowl. (Snowbowl is in VT).

Oops. They're actually pretty similar, if anyone likes skiing the Ski Bowl I guarantee they're going to love it on the hippie side of the lake, too.

snoloco

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by Harvey

Harvey wrote

As long as I run this insane asylum

You hit the nail on the head there. I hope that Gore lets me in later this summer to get the report of the new ADK Express after referring to something that they did in the past as the "mother of all mistakes". Hopefully they don't ban me from the facility.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

skimore

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by ml242

ml242 wrote

having to thread the needle through the herds on boring groomers on thoroughfares that aren't to be enjoyed but rather are just employed as a means to bring people down the slopes.

this says it all

Harvey

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

Administrator

In reply to this post by snoloco

snoloco wrote

I hope that Gore lets me in later this summer to get the report of the new ADK Express after referring to something that they did in the past as the "mother of all mistakes". Hopefully they don't ban me from the facility.

The decision to reopen the Ski Bowl was made in Albany. I don't think it will be taken personally at Gore.

ml the Snowbowl is on my bucket list. The Ski Bowl with 125 more inches of snow.

I like hippies. We got a few of those at Gore too.

"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp

snoloco

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

Harvey wrote

The decision to reopen the Ski Bowl was made in Albany. I don't think it will be taken personally at Gore.

That explains why it has done so poorly. The politicians decided to build it, not Gore's management which is actually out in the field. If it were totally up to them, then the other upgrades were going to happen first. I do recall a while back on the blog one of your many conversations with Mike Pratt. I believe that one of the questions was "Why all this new terrain when there isn't enough snowmaking to open it"? I believe the answer was that the state says that more terrain sells better and they want us to add more before improving snowmaking on existing terrain. I believe that it is best to improve what you have and not try and get more till what you have is the best it can be. NY's mentality is get a bunch of new stuff, and then upgrade as you go.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

ml242

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

So the first step is to bury snowmaking pipe in the woods, and then cut the trails?

Snowballs

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

Banned User

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by ml242

ml242 wrote

Oops. They're actually pretty similar, if anyone likes skiing the Ski Bowl I guarantee they're going to love it on the hippie side of the lake, too.

Hehehe.

Woo Hoo ! Let's Party !!!!! I think Lake George's Log Bay Days start this Monday. There's a party !

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=log+bay+day+2014

http://www.logbay.net/Log%20Bay.htm

The calf's pen. There's some very tall jumps here. Even a tree at top to climb out on....if you're nuts..... South of Log Bay on the hippie side of the lake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP8ocWWPaSY

These guys get up high. About the 2 min mark. It's a pretty crazy jump. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9HDyFk-nc4

snoloco

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by ml242

ml242 wrote

So the first step is to bury snowmaking pipe in the woods, and then cut the trails?

No, you cut the trail first and add snowmaking pipe as part of the same project. You wait till you have the money to cut the trail AND install snowmaking before anything gets done, not cut the trail and advertise a trail, but a useless one because it isn't open much. As Snowballs said in a different thread, Hoyt's High at Whiteface was open maybe 5 days in 5 years before snowmaking was added. That trail was advertised as part of the Lookout Mountain expansion (another botched trail pod), but could hardly be considered part of it as it was never open. With snowmaking, it is now open much more often, but the entire pod is frequently closed due to insufficient snowmaking capacity. The best of the 3 recent ORDA expansions is Burnt Ridge. However, all 3 were done as cheaply as possible and you get what you pay for. I cut WF some slack because Lookout wasn't built properly due to attempts to shoot it down by tree huggers. All the environmental issues caused it to go over budget, and they couldn't delay the project to make sure that they had the money to build it right. If it weren't for them, the third trail would have been built with snowmaking, and Hoyt's High would have gotten it right off the bat. I don't quite remember the maps with the proposed terrain on them, but I think that Rand's Last Stand was originally going to be cut as a trail too. Burnt Ridge also had a rough time in its early years, but has since improved. Still the area needs much more trails than it has. There looks to be sufficient terrain to cut them on though.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

For some reason loco brings out the football coach in me with his laziness. I'm compelled to have him drop and give me 20.

Pee on the other hand is just a legend his own mind. When he is not inventing the internet and making billions he is climbing mountains and slaying powder or so he says. Beginning to think that Pee is loco's dad cause otherwise I can't seem to get what his problem is with me.

Sorry for the tangent now back on topic. Lookout went over budget because of the unplanned amount of blasting required to sort of make a blue out of what probably was a black. Hoyt's is the best new trail cut in the East in the last 20 years. The reason snowmaking got delayed was the cost of steel for pipe had skyrocketed in that timeframe compared to when it was budgeted. There is one more trail planned to run on the other side of the lift line from Hoyt's.

if You French Fry when you should Pizza you are going to have a bad time

Harvey

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

Administrator

New York: Hey Ted, yes or no: do you want some money for a lift at the Ski Bowl?

Ted: Can I have some money for snowmaking too?

New York: Maybe. It's our plan to appropriate that money eventually, but you know this is government. Who knows what kind of financial crisis going to come down the pike.

Ted: Well... ok I'll go for it. But snoloco is going to be pissed!

Just sayin you take what you get and you don't get upset. Gore has had as much or more expansion in the last decade than any ski area in the east. Many of the Gore hardcore that hang here have no problem with thin cover or natural snow. We're just skiin and enjoying what NY has sent our way. Some probably wish BR was still undeveloped for different reasons. They'd rather access that terrain as sidecountry, without a lift.

Question for sno: If Mike tells you that there are funds to cut Barkeater now but the money for snowmaking might come for two or three years in the future should he cut it?

"You just need to go at that shit wide open, hang on, and own it." —Camp

PeeTex

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

As I recall Gore opened Burnt Ridge w/o snow making and got lucky. If it had been a low snow year that lift may have never turned. If you can take the long term view and your sugar daddy has deep pockets you can afford to have an investment like that sit idle. From an ROI perspective Sno is spot on.

Don't ski the trees, ski the spaces between the trees.

snoloco

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

This post was updated on .

In reply to this post by Harvey

Harvey wrote

Question for sno: If Mike tells you that there are funds to cut Barkeater now but the money for snowmaking might come for two or three years in the future should he cut it?

I have no problem with natural snow. I love the occasional powder day. However, I have a major problem not being able to ski large sections of the mountain on non powder days. I say that Barkeater should be left as is until they have the money to both cut it, and add snowmaking. Glades are at least acceptable with no snowmaking. Cut trails are not and will never be open much. When Windham added all their new trails in recent years, they waited till they had the money to have snowmaking right off the bat. When Hunter doesn't blow snow on Annapurna, it doesn't open all year. I hate when trails are closed most of the time and I want snowmaking to make sure they open consistently.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

Highpeaksdrifter

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by Harvey

Harvey wrote

Question for sno: If Mike tells you that there are funds to cut Barkeater now but the money for snowmaking might come for two or three years in the future should he cut it?

You cut that trail right now without question. This way the project is at least started and partially paid for and that is a catalyst to complete it sooner than later. There are several trails that have been approved on WF’s UMP that will never be realized. So you put that trail on the mountain now if possible and the rest will follow.

Young dude has some really good ideas for someone his age, plus I dig his passion, but he doesn’t understand how things work yet.

There's truth that lives
And truth that dies
I don't know which
So never mind - Leonard Cohen

Highpeaksdrifter

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by PeeTex

PeeTex wrote

You want to ski with me one day, sure - I'll go easy, I'll only ask you to drag your ass to the top of Lower Wolf Jaw or Wright. I won't ask you to climb Macomb or Gothics or Saddleback. I won't ask you to spend a few snowy nights in the woods. I am sure you would do fine on the way down, probably make it down well before me, but how will you do on the way up? Will you know how to make sure the terrain is safe? But not to worry, I am not a total A-hole, I won't leave you to die in the woods - I've never left anyone in the woods yet and I sure as hell won't let you drop into an unstable slide cause I don't want to have to dig your sorry ass out - which I would without hesitation.

PeeTex, do you know RonKon or any of the other skitodie crew?

There's truth that lives
And truth that dies
I don't know which
So never mind - Leonard Cohen

snoloco

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by Z

Coach Z wrote

For some reason loco brings out the football coach in me with his laziness. I'm compelled to have him drop and give me 20.

I just did 20. Let's see how many you can do.

I've lived in New York my entire life.

ml242

Re: Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

In reply to this post by snoloco

snoloco wrote

Burnt Ridge also had a rough time in its early years, but has since improved. Still the area needs much more trails than it has. There looks to be sufficient terrain to cut them on though.

Who says? I like being on a trail and having no awareness of skiers on another trail anywhere near me. I like seeing the forest for its trees. Looking at Okemo or Mount Snow where every trail is cut exactly the same with a thin strip of trees between them ruins the snowpack and the experience. I believe this is part of what's known as the "Don't Stratton Magic" argument.

As far as Hoyt's goes, pointing at one trail, that faces due south, hardly opens and closes the book on trail design.

Word on the street is that whenever the skiing is bad, the ice-climbing is pretty good. If I was going to look at a whole season of boring icy and crowded groomers, there's a good chance I would become a stellar ice climber.

And I say this as someone who loves all skiing.

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