Love and Fear

An Arrogant Know it All wrote

The point of public demonstration is to put forward an idea. The reaction of the masses is how that idea is received.

This sounds like something than an arrogant "know-it-all" would say.

I have spent the majority of my summer doing volunteer work.  I live in trump country.  Throughout this experience, I have met several people who voted for trump, and I have come to know them well, and would call them good friends.  Most of them are uneducated.  It took a while before we could openly discuss the current political situation, but when we did, I made it a point to listen first.  You would be surprised what you can learn when you decide to listen.

None of them are trump supporters.  They voted for change because they perceived many of the personalities in the Obama administration as arrogant.   When faced with the choice of trump style arrogance or clinton style arrogance, they chose trump.  Not because they hate Muslims, or want to build a wall down in Mexico.  All of these people are either on medicaid or obtained health insurance via the ACA.  They voted for change.  Imagine who they would have voted for if Senator Sanders were a choice?

MC:  In case you were not aware.  Arrogance is not persuasive.  Wake up.  You're passion has turned to arrogance.  You're part of the problem.  Listen to the people you disagree with.  You might actually learn something.

Nice of you to call me names, and then offer nothing in your post to say why what I said was "arrogant" or wrong.

PeeTex and Jonny and Coach have offered the other side. I'm offering my side. Yet, you only seem to have a problem with me.

Strange.

Yeah, nepa, I normally find your posts enlightening. But the quote that you are saying sounds like an arrogant know it all sounds to me like a self evident truth.

Which isn't to say there aren't examples of arrogance and know it alls posting here every day.

witch hobble wrote

Which isn't to say there aren't examples of arrogance and know it alls posting here every day.

With all the "know-it-alls" that populate this board, it was a bit weird that nepa singled me out with a quote that didn't seem arrogant at all, but maybe he has a different take?

MC2 5678F589 wrote

witch hobble wrote

Which isn't to say there aren't examples of arrogance and know it alls posting here every day.

With all the "know-it-alls" that populate this board, it was a bit weird that nepa singled me out with a quote that didn't seem arrogant at all, but maybe he has a different take?

Fair enough, but I think you're missing my point.  I didn't offer anything as a rebuttal because I don't disagree with your position.  I completely disagree with how you are delivering the message.  

It may not seem arrogant to you, but put yourself in the position of a person who barely has a high school education.  

In my opinion, your rhetorical style is polarizing and divisive (similar to the fox news model). Your ultra-liberal pit-bullish attitude causes more problems than it solves.  

What we need now is a more persuasive dialogue.  Arrogantly telling the opposition that their opinions are worthless is not very persuasive.

Do you understand what I am trying to say?

nepa wrote

What we need now is a more persuasive dialogue.  Arrogantly telling the opposition that their opinions are worthless is not very persuasive.

Do you understand what I am trying to say?

Yes, but I disagree that I've told anyone that their opinions are worthless. Maybe you're looking for these guys, arguing over opinions:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Chris-Christie-Video-tp4065240p4065422.html

I've always said on this site that everyone is entitled to their opinions. You, in the course of this thread, have accused me of being an "arrogant know it all" (even though you agreed with my statement), and you seem like you're trying to tell me to shut up ("Your ultra-liberal pit-bullish attitude causes more problems than it solves"... "You're part of the problem").

Taken together, it seems like you're singling me out to prevent me from speaking my opinions. Why? Why just me? Why are you not as divisive as I am? You have opinions that are way more radical than mine (legalize all drugs, nationalize the banks, etc.). Why are your posts acceptable, but mine aren't? Style over substance?

nepa wrote

Do you understand what I am trying to say?

I think we are all trying to say is 🤔......WE NEED SNOW!

Yeah, we got to that by mid August this year. 😜

JTG4eva! wrote

I think we are all trying to say is 🤔......WE NEED SNOW!

Yeah, we got to that by mid August this year. 😜

About 1 month early:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Okay-I-m-ready-for-winter-tp4062922.html

The quote in question I just don't see as arrogant, and it's definitely not polarizing.  It seems like an informed, big picture take on the situation over the weekend, and in everyday life. Whether the organized protest referred to is John and Yoko, the Wesboro Baptist Church, Illinois Nazis, Black Lives Matter, Occupy Wall Street, or some counter protest group.

But that could be my liberal (true dictionary version...Latin root....mind as open book) bias speaking.

MC2 5678F589 wrote

nepa wrote

What we need now is a more persuasive dialogue.  Arrogantly telling the opposition that their opinions are worthless is not very persuasive.

Do you understand what I am trying to say?

Yes, but I disagree that I've told anyone that their opinions are worthless. Maybe you're looking for these guys, arguing over opinions:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Chris-Christie-Video-tp4065240p4065422.html

I've always said on this site that everyone is entitled to their opinions. You, in the course of this thread, have accused me of being an "arrogant know it all" (even though you agreed with my statement), and you seem like you're trying to tell me to shut up ("Your ultra-liberal pit-bullish attitude causes more problems than it solves"... "You're part of the problem").

Taken together, it seems like you're singling me out to prevent me from speaking my opinions. Why? Why just me? Why are you not as divisive as I am? You have opinions that are way more radical than mine (legalize all drugs, nationalize the banks, etc.). Why are your posts acceptable, but mine aren't? Style over substance?

You're doing "it" right now.  Stop for a moment and think about what "it" is.

I never said you should not express your opinion.  I was critical of your method of expression.  I apologize if you have taken my words the wrong way.  Obviously, I am now the enemy.  I feel like we'll never eye-to-eye because you are in attack mode.  You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else.  I think your method of political expression is rather inflammatory.  I stand by what I said... It's not just you, but you are making a great example.

Why not accept the criticism, and say "Maybe if I adjust my attack dog style, I can be more persuasive, and potentially change things for the better?"

Just my opinion.  Don't take it personally.  

How many trump voters have you actually listened to?  I suspect very few because it appears your default reaction when talking politics is to attack those you disagree with.

witch hobble wrote

The quote in question I just don't see as arrogant, and it's definitely not polarizing.

When you read those words, put yourself in the position of a person with a vocational high school education who has never left their home state, and rarely if ever visits metropolitan areas.  

It's not the statement itself.  The fact is, I suspect a poorly educated person would have difficulty understanding the meaning behind the words.  This can be very frustrating and demeaning to some people.  This is my point about MC's style of political expression... it can come across as arrogant and demeaning to some people.

At the risk of sounding arrogant myself... sometimes you have to "dumb it down" to get more people to understand your position.  Many of the trump voters I know lack an understanding of liberalism and how it can actually benefit them.  This is because liberal concepts are often presented to them in language they have difficulty understanding.

 

nepa wrote

You're doing "it" right now.  Stop for a moment and think about what "it" is.

You are doing to me what you accuse me of doing to others. My comments in this exchange have been questions, trying to get at why you are feeling the things you're feeling. Your comments have been accusations, accusing me of things ("arrogant know it all", "part of the problem"). Why do you feel the need to attack me at the same time as you're giving me "feedback" on my forum post?

I never said you should not express your opinion.  I was critical of your method of expression.  I apologize if you have taken my words the wrong way.  Obviously, I am now the enemy.  I feel like we'll never eye-to-eye because you are in attack mode.  You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else.  I think your method of political expression is rather inflammatory.  I stand by what I said... It's not just you, but you are making a great example.

Again, I'm not in "attack mode". You started this when you quoted something I said and called me an arrogant know it all. How is that not attack mode, but my questions to you are?

Why not accept the criticism, and say "Maybe if I adjust my attack dog style, I can be more persuasive, and potentially change things for the better?"

What concrete steps have you given here to alleviate your concerns? What would you have me do? I engage when I want to engage, and back off when I want to back off, just like everyone on this forum. You're  keeping your end of this attack going. You want me to stop responding? Why call me the "attack dog" when you attacked me out of nowhere around midnight last night (my time) with a quote that you, yourself, admitted was true?

Just my opinion.  Don't take it personally.

I have a lot of opinions. But I've managed to refrain from name calling in this exchange. You, in your last few posts, have called me arrogant, polarizing, divisive, inflammatory, a "know it all", and possessing of an "ultra-liberal pit-bullish attitude [that] causes more problems than it solves. Hard not to take that personally. Can I insult you and then tell you "Don't take it personally"?

How many trump voters have you actually listened to?  I suspect very few because it appears your default reaction when talking politics is to attack those you disagree with.

I have friends who are Trump supporters (although, for most of them, their support has definitely waned - most of them were in the "Anybody but Hillary" camp). Some are posting Facebook memes to the bitter end. I engage with them when I want, and back off when I want. They are okay with this because that's what people do: they don't let stupid conversations about bullshit politics derail friendships.

And again, I'm not the attacker here. I have yet to accuse you of being "part of the problem" and I have yet to attack your "method of expression". I'm just a guy giving his opinions in my own voice. Why does that bother you?

Trust me.....I dumb it down for you fuckin chowderheads all the time.

That was a joke! ✌🏼

He is describing something that can be easily understood by people of all stripes and education levels: that people who are participating in a public protest have an issue they are concerned about or passionate about, and they are looking for a reaction from large numbers of people.  He may use different words, although in this case, I don't find his thought process to be too Liberal Artsy and the words don't require a thesaurus.

Just like in the Cape Cod thread, the dudes I saw in Ptown in their assless chaps and dog collars were out trolling, not just for other dudes, but for reactions from the straight, traditional nuclear family tourist types getting ice cream and lobster rolls.  That is why you behave in a "look at me" way in public.  For the reaction.

I can't speak for your people you are envisioning not understanding or feeling preached to or looked down upon, but I have only a high school education.

Fair enough.  Let it snow.   

witch hobble wrote

I can't speak for your people you are envisioning not understanding or feeling preached to or looked down upon, but I have only a high school education.

Lol. Yep, there are plenty of people on both sides with all levels of education. I think it's a weird stereotype that I have to "dumb it down" specifically for certain Trump voters (that probably don't populate this forum).

I'll just do like Lauryn Hill: "After all my logic and my theory, I add a 'Motherfucker' so you ignant n------z hear me."

witch hobble wrote

He may use different words, although in this case, I don't find his thought process to be too Liberal Artsy and the words don't require a thesaurus.

Fair enough.  I understand what you are saying.

I'm fairly certain, if I put that statement, in those words, to the people in my community, with an attack dog attitude, they would say I was talking down to them.  Just my experience.  

nepa wrote

Fair enough.  Let it snow.  

MC2 5678F589 wrote

nepa wrote

Fair enough.  Let it snow.  

In my opinion, you're still part of the problem.  

nepa wrote

witch hobble wrote

The quote in question I just don't see as arrogant, and it's definitely not polarizing.

When you read those words, put yourself in the position of a person with a vocational high school education who has never left their home state, and rarely if ever visits metropolitan areas.  

It's not the statement itself.  The fact is, I suspect a poorly educated person would have difficulty understanding the meaning behind the words.  This can be very frustrating and demeaning to some people.  This is my point about MC's style of political expression... it can come across as arrogant and demeaning to some people.

At the risk of sounding arrogant myself... sometimes you have to "dumb it down" to get more people to understand your position.  Many of the trump voters I know lack an understanding of liberalism and how it can actually benefit them.  This is because liberal concepts are often presented to them in language they have difficulty understanding.

You mean like  language that Rush Limbaugh and the rest of the conservative talk show universe has been shouting at people for 30 years? These voters have developed their perceptions somewhere and they got them from a big voiced, he-man woman hater, with a quasi-religious, populist bent. They get lost down the rabbit hole of guns, feminazis, gay rights, insane conspiracies and lower taxes that will never show up on their paychecks.

No matter how or what MC says , these people will never hear it.

Flies....and honey and vinegar is all it really is.  

Matt may be less 'share and ponder' (what some might consider honey) than 'judge, preach, and edumacate' (vinegar) when it comes to political opinions/philosophy.......but I'm not sure he's looking to collect flies!