$20M for Whiteface and Gore + $8M for Belle

I'm ok with pretty much everything except the mountain coaster.  I have been returning to Whiteface for 27 years, my parents 45+ and my family has made it their home away from home because we figured they would never do shit like put in a frikin mountain coaster, water park, etc or any other un-natural looking garbage because of the strict APA rules etc.  I hope Coach is right.

I may be from the dirty jerz, but I'm fine saying that we don't need a bunch of NJ/city ppl in our way who drove 5 hours to ride a f**king mountain coaster.  Can see it now...Lower parking lot full, mountain coaster, zipline, and "high end amenities" parking only.  Skiers please park in upper lot and take shuttle!!!

Snow it would come out of there on an angle up what was silver shoot (I have no idea what small animal that trail  is now called) and then would have to run up Boreen. To get the angle right it would need to start on the far side of the magic carpet

Agree. Send the coaster to Syracuse with the new gondi

All the trails in the valley are already overcrowded.  Putting another lift there that can only access Boreen will make it even worse.

Also, routing it up and over the Wilmington Trail will be really expensive.

I'd do what Stowe did and have a fixed grip quad with a loading carpet go up the existing route, but extend higher up to get a better connection onto Boreen.

I never park at Kids Kampus and don't plan to.  No way I'm starting at a beginner lodge and wasting my time going up a slow lift and down a flat trail to get to decent terrain.  If I start at the main base, after booting up, I can walk right on the gondola and be on the top of LWF in under 10 minutes from leaving the lodge.  If I start at Kids Kampus, I'd have to go up that lift, ski down to the gondola (which would likely have a line by the time I got there) before getting on it to get up to LWF.  That adds at least another 15 minutes to the trip.  At the end of the day, I have to make sure I don't go to the bottom after 4, or I can't get a lift back out to get to Kids Kampus.  If I start at the main base, I can ski right up to the last chair on Facelift and not worry about getting back to the car.

ADmiKe wrote

I may be from the dirty jerz, but I'm fine saying that we don't need a bunch of NJ/city ppl in our way who drove 5 hours to ride a f**king mountain coaster.  Can see it now...Lower parking lot full, mountain coaster, zipline, and "high end amenities" parking only.  Skiers please park in upper lot and take shuttle!!!

I normally pull in the parking lot at 7:45, so I think I'd still get good parking.

If the wanted to make all skiers park in the upper lot and put in a cabriolet to get up to the lodge, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

I was kinda just joking...if you cant walk from up top you prob shouldn't be skiing lol

Coach......you are envisioning a lift with a turn in it (as there is no straight line from the Bear Den carpet to the base of the Lookout chair)?  You could run in a straight line up to Boreen at Ladies Bridge but from there you'd have to make a right turn to head up the Boreen "headwall" toward Lookout.  That would also be a terrible place to run a lift as that section of Boreen isn't that wide (with little room to widen), and the "headwall" is difficult enough for beginners without lift towers gumming up the works.  Is that the only viable way, or more viable than extending the existing Bear Den lift line, which could run straight to the base of the Lookout chair if it went up and over the ridge that sits between Wilmington and U/L Boreen?

Here are Gore's upgrades:

•Expanding seating capacity and modernizing the Saddle Lodge’s facilities and infrastructure;
•Adding a third story to the Base Lodge – building corporate meeting room space, additional seating and customer amenities, and expanding the rental shop in the Northwoods Lodge; and
•Restoring the original 1967 gondola unloading station into a Gore summit warming facility and overlook.

Notice the careful language.
Saddle Lodge - does not seem like they are going to actually expand the building and that is what is needed.

Base Lodge 3rd floor - 'corporate meeting room space' is first and most important - this where the money is being spent

Summit gondola station restore - does not mention restroom facilities, why wouldn't you mention restrooms? no snacks or eating facility?

Ultimately, they could add $100 million to Gore and there will be no increase in visits until they figure out they need to advertise in the NYC metro area.

snoloco wrote

I never park at Kids Kampus and don't plan to.  No way I'm starting at a beginner lodge and wasting my time going up a slow lift and down a flat trail to get to decent terrain.  If I start at the main base, after booting up, I can walk right on the gondola and be on the top of LWF in under 10 minutes from leaving the lodge.  If I start at Kids Kampus, I'd have to go up that lift, ski down to the gondola (which would likely have a line by the time I got there) before getting on it to get up to LWF. 

I dont mind it at all.  You dont have to take the lift either, you can just walk up a bit and ski over on Porcupine Pass.

Coach Z wrote

  Spending money for the hell of it so he can get in the news without regard if they are really good investments for the tax payers.  Where the heck is all this money coming from anyway that he is giving out?

The paychecks of New York State residents.

I think the summit gondola building needs to be demolished ASAP.  I don't like skating around it, and if you are a snowboarder, it's even worse.

The Saddle Lodge upgrade will mean nothing if they don't also upgrade the High Peaks chair, as you have to take the gondola to reach the upper mountain if the High Peaks lift is broken and closed.

The Gore upgrades mostly seem rational, but still no real connection from Burnt Ridge to the Ski Bowl.  The "upgrades" at Whiteface are mostly a waste of money, especially the mountain coaster and zip line.  Do the Kids Kampus upgrades and chuck out the rest and use the money for snowmaking at both mountains.

Sno....think big picture.  You can do it!

The Bear Den expansion wouldn't be for someone like you.  Also, it would no longer be a beginner lodge, or have a slow lift, or only access beginner terrain.  It would, however, pull a lot of beginner skiers, and there more accomplished families/parents, over there.  It would serve to alleviate what little crowding the mountain does occasionally have, and would help expand useful parking.  

You, personally, would never park there, or use the lodge or lift, but you'd benefit from less people in the main base area.  You are soooo against long lines, but those might be inevitable with increased skier visits if there isn't some long term plan to spread people to what is now an area with relatively low utilization.

I fail to see how a lodge with only beginner terrain next to it isn't a beginner lodge.

I always arrive early anyways, so I can get good parking at the main base.

I get that there are some people who would benefit from the Kids Kampus upgrades (and they should be at least partly done), but they need to upgrade the expert terrain (mainly relating to Lookout) instead of wasting money on a zip line or mountain coaster.

Some interesting out takes.

The $20 million for the upgrades at Whiteface and Gore is in addition to $10 million the state is providing to the Olympic Regional Development Authority, operator of both ski resorts, as part of the state’s 2017-18 fiscal year budget.

So, 10 mill this year (for which upgrades orda ?) PLUS the originally mentioned 20 mill. Sounding even better !

The old Gondi building reno is great but I bet they screw it up. I hope they don't. That building needs to be moved to the very top, 340 degree views, high peaks, Vt and all !!! A true WOW!!! spot. Seriously. People would love it. It would be spectacular ! The relocation actually wouldn't be too hard and the results would be so awesome. Plus, unloading from the lift would be so much easier.

This maybe the most curious...

" This investment will leverage up to $80 million in private funding to add additional amenities and retail options for guests. "

Considering the State land restrictions, where would " additional amenities and retail options for guests. " be located ?

I agree no snowmaking upgrades is very lame. Gore's already underpowered. Have they not noticed the winter weather trends ? The way it's going, if you don't have big guns, you'll be open much less.

If Sno's estimate of 1 mill per hill yielding good gains is correct, then ORDA def needs to do it ASAP.

Could it be ORDA doesn't upgrade SN because they simply don't want to have to fund it each year ?

to get to the bottom of Lookout out it would have to have a change of direction in it.

to go straight line from the far side of the carpet to the bottom of Broadway roughly about where the old Mid station chair ended there would not have to be an angle added.  it just would need to be high enough so that you could get to the boreen headwall bypass without having to go uphill.

If the NY Legislature doesn't appropriate the money for any or all of Andrew's grand vision, those projects don't happen.
All NY'ers here should communicate their concerns to their Senators and Assembly members

Wait. I want to make sure I understand this......

Somebody is giving your home  ski hills a bunch of free money and you guys are bitching about how it's going to be spent?? Do I understand this correctly?

campgottagopee wrote

Wait. I want to make sure I understand this......

Somebody is giving your home  ski hills a bunch of free money and you guys are bitching about how it's going to be spent?? Do I understand this correctly?

Wow - the voice of wisdom! You are absolutely correct - don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Thanks for the dope slap.

I actually like the idea of restoring the old Gondola terminal at Gore. That was my idea in fact, I'm glad they took it seriously. We talked on this topic last year. I'd still much rather see snowmaking improvements.

snoloco wrote

Lookout still isn't open, and they're pissing away money on building a zipline and roller coaster.  Imagine if just 1 million of this large investment was spent on snowmaking at each mountain.  We'd definitely have all the lifts open by now.

A lift from Kids Kampus to midstation is one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.  There's one trail there that sends you back to KK and that's Boreen, headwall included.  It's already crowded enough as is and now they want to dump even more people out there.  Just upgrade the lift on the existing route if they really need to build another lift.

This whole thing is more proof that NY should NOT be in the skiing business.

Holy shit, what bizarro world do you live in? If NY wasn't in the skiing business, GORE WOULDNT EVEN EXIST! Well, maybe as some far flung teetering on bankruptcy ski hill, like Tupper, but, a little better, but certainly not Gore as it exists today. For gods sake young man, do you think this 20 mil just grew on Cuomo's Magic money tree? And, don't you dare even try to tell me it comes from ticket sales.