$20M for Whiteface and Gore + $8M for Belle

campgottagopee wrote

Wait. I want to make sure I understand this......

Somebody is giving your home  ski hills a bunch of free money and you guys are bitching about how it's going to be spent?? Do I understand this correctly?

If the money came from lift ticket sales, then they should be putting it back into the skiing, and I fail to see how particularly the zipline and roller coaster will enhance the experience for Whiteface and help the general area, when LP already has the best off hill activities in the east.

If anything, it will bring in more low level skiers who can't handle the terrain and will leave pissed off and tell everyone about it on the internet, hurting the business more.

I can only hope that the APA chucks both in the garbage and they decide to redirect some of the money towards things that actually matter to the skiing, such as snowmaking.  Especially with ski areas needing to handle the long term effects of climate change.  I'm guessing that they don't really care about the skiing now (which is a shame because WF has great terrain) because if people don't like it they can just ride the roller coaster and have fun that way.

And Camp, did you see what happened to Greek when they jumped on the bandwagon with the very negative non skiing focus that so many mountains have lately done?  I have heard many assessments that their skiing product has gone downhill as a result.  Coach showed the same thing happening at Jay.  Now Whiteface will have it's skiing experience diminished just like those places.

Sno... one thing I think you have to accept and acknowledge... money spent for improvements and Bell, Gore and WF is largely dictated by the government. If you don't like this, then say it now... this expenditure is bad government, not bad ski area management. Go ahead say it.

Well what do you expect when politicians in Albany who don't know anything about running a ski area (not that I expected them to) decide where the upgrades happen.  Shouldn't Mike and Aaron have some say in where the upgrade money goes?

It's one thing to invest in off hill activities when you are trying to become more of a destination, and when your skiing product is already top of the line.  It's another thing to try and steal business away from the town and not upgrade the skiing as a result.  Think of all the false hopes created by the Gore Ski Bowl epic fail.  It's NEVER going to help the town unless it's open consistently.

snoloco wrote

 Think of all the false hopes created by the Gore Ski Bowl epic fail.  It's NEVER going to help the town unless it's open consistently.

Wonder if that's where the " up to $80 million in private funding to add additional amenities and retail options for guests. " would be located at ? Sort of the natural choice given the infrastructure already built for it.

If this private funding is real then maybe they're the driving force behind the " non-ski " improvements so it's more four seasons making their investments more viable.

Sno has a lot of opinions on this.

I guess I'd be psyched if Gore sunk some real money into some quality stuff. But what is the evidence that they would do that? They turned a cool deck grill on one side of the deck into a giant monstrosity of a Building on the other side that fully blocks the view from half the lodge. They redid the saddle lodge fireplace into a pretty cool piece, using cool stone, but completely disregarded the bathrooms and the rest of the lodge. They could have built a cool deck outside of the bar, but they built a metal monstrosity that reminds me of a prison fence and is right above the leech field (judging by the smells).

I hope that they hire some real designers with real experience for these lodges. No reason that they can't make it as good as (or better than) the new lodge on top of K1 at Killington. But knowing Gore, I'm not optimistic.

The changes at Whiteface seem okay. I like to park at the Kids Kampus when I get there late, and a lift to the Midstation would be nice. And I think the zip line and mountain coaster ideas actually aren't that bad. Spending some time mountain biking at Killington this summer, I saw how popular that stuff is to people who generally aren't "mountain people". We don't really relate to it on this forum, but I'm telling you, people from NYC and Montreal will eat that shit up.

It would be nice to see more snowmaking money and better connections to the ski bowl. I think they should spend the entire $20 million Gore budget on a Free North Creek to Ski Bowl Base to Burnt Ridge Base to Gore Base Gondola and then run it all year for MTB (making the place a mountain bike Mecca). But nobody ever listens to me.

not one mention of upgrading the printers at the ticket window or installing a ticket kiosk.
so 20 mil later i will still be standing outside for 20 minutes trying to buy a lift ticket.
Bull Shit

total disclosure. i've ridden a mountain coaster....... and it sucked

Mountain coasters suck anyways.  I always get stuck behind the slow person and it ruins the ride.  Overpriced and typical non skiing distraction.  I'll only ride them if it's for free.

snoloco wrote

Well what do you expect

This is not about what I expect.  I am not surprised.  

A significant part of the content of this forum revolves around your expectations.

A couple more thoughts on this.  

Cascades X-C center just spent a lot of money and effort putting in a ropes course / zip line and now Orda comes along and will compete with a local family owned business.  Not cool at all.  http://www.cascadeski.com/zipline/

Where exactly will they put this coaster thingy?  How many trees have to get cut for it and is it going to be an eyesore?  Will APA have to approve it.  Will the birds like it since that delayed the Lookout pod?  Will that count towards our trail cut limit?  That would be a deal killer for sure.

Does the legislature have to still approve the drunken sailor spending spree of the Gov?  If so what is the chance of all 3 recent North Country gifts from the Gov get approved?

Ethan Snow wrote

I actually like the idea of restoring the old Gondola terminal at Gore. That was my idea in fact, I'm glad they took it seriously. We talked on this topic last year. I'd still much rather see snowmaking improvements.

Funniest post of the thread so far.

Yeah, nobody ever thought of converting the existing big building at the top of the mountain into some kind of rest stop until you mentioned it.

Thanks!!!!!

sig wrote

 not one mention of upgrading the printers at the ticket window or installing a ticket kiosk.
so 20 mil later i will still be standing outside for 20 minutes trying to buy a lift ticket.

Bull Shit

Yea right ? Same with a web cam .

Snowballs wrote

sig wrote

 not one mention of upgrading the printers at the ticket window or installing a ticket kiosk.
so 20 mil later i will still be standing outside for 20 minutes trying to buy a lift ticket.

Bull Shit

Yea right ? Same with a web cam .

There is an video anomaly at Gore and it is called ES. As long as ES works at Gore there will be no web cam. Even Stratton has a web cam now.

Coach Z wrote

Cascades X-C center just spent a lot of money and effort putting in a ropes course / zip line and now Orda comes along and will compete with a local family owned business.  Not cool at all.  http://www.cascadeski.com/zipline/

I agree.  Not a good thing that the government will come in and compete with a family business like that.  Yes I know Belleayre already competes directly with the private Catskill areas, but Belleayre has always been a ski area and been state run.

ORDA should focus on upgrading the skiing (which other businesses don't have) to get more people in the area to patronize the local businesses.

Good morning. Have a nice day guys.

The coaster is being considered at Mt. VanHo near the bob/luge run and not at Whiteface.  The press release should have been clearer.

Nice one Jonnyonthespot. C u sat

mattchuck2 wrote

Sno has a lot of opinions on this.

He has a lot of opinions on everything. He has a strong sense of entitlement and very little real life experience. He's the child in the room showing off for all the adults, but it's not cute it's obnoxious. I'll say this for him though, he gets all the attention he's looking for. For his sake I hope he doesn't act like this with his peers from college.

mattchuck2 wrote

The changes at Whiteface seem okay. I like to park at the Kids Kampus when I get there late, and a lift to the Midstation would be nice. And I think the zip line and mountain coaster ideas actually aren't that bad. Spending some time mountain biking at Killington this summer, I saw how popular that stuff is to people who generally aren't "mountain people". We don't really relate to it on this forum, but I'm telling you, people from NYC and Montreal will eat that shit up.

I agree with all this. Certainly like so many others on this thread, I'd like to see more snowmaking. That said, WF has been trying for years to give tourist a reason to get out of LP and come to WF to play and spend in the summer. I think a Mt. coaster and Zip line would go a long way in doing just that. MC2 is a measured voice of reason.

playoneontv wrote

The coaster is being considered at Mt. VanHo near the bob/luge run and not at Whiteface.  The press release should have been clearer.

Wait a minute ...

Are you saying that people on this forum are complaining and ranting about something they know nothing about???