A little rant about Gore

As we all know, the weather has been a bit nippy for the two weeks from Christmas Day until last Sunday. I normally don't even think of skiing during the holiday week, but that week of no skiing turned into two with the brutal below zero temps making my gym look more attractive than any ski hill during that period. So, I saw that the forecast was warming temps starting Monday. So, Cool, I'm back, no more hibernation. I'm a MaxPass holder, so, the northeast was my oyster as I checked out Google Maps and tried to figure out a plan of attack. At first, I was considering Sunday River in Maine, a mountain I have never skied but is supposed to be ok, and they got some from the weekend storm. But, their website implied that the winds knocked down some trees and did some lift damage, so, Benny wasn't driving six hours for limited service. But then I check Gore's website, and they were almost fully operational on Sunday, even with the cold, and I had a fun day there a few weeks before, so, great, less driving. Gore it is, sleeping in Saratoga, which I like to do (great bars, cheap beds), and then maybe Whiteface the next day. I drive up to Saratoga Sunday and anticipate a fun two of three days skiing in the ADK over a nice Islay single malt and a beer at 9 Maple. I heart Saratoga.

So, I drive up to Gore the next morning. At first only the Adirondack Express was running as I booted up, but then they switched everyone over to the gondola and shut down that quad. Said it was broken. Please. It's brand new, and was fine. Benny wasn't born last week. Then, it took a good hour to access the Straightbrook quad, the only other chair operating during the day. Well, yeah, the Burnt Ridge chair was running, but, please, I ain't skating a half mile for that unfinished area. I was pissed. This isn't the first time I chose to go to that mountain on a midweek day, and find it essentially half closed, because, you know, it wasn't the weekend. As I said, just the day before, the mountain was almost fully operational. Now, I get two chairs, and tons of roped off trails that were more than skiable. I talked to customer service, and a kind woman admitted that they had "staffing issues", and she wasn't happy, either. But, they were charging just 8 dollars less for much less mountain.
Trust me, Killington was pretty much fully operational on Monday. Sure, every chair wasn't running, but, every section of that mountain had at least one chair running. As a matter of fact, Monday is almost a weekend day there, as many call in sick to extend their weekends, KNOWING THAT THERE WILL BE CHAIRS RUNNING on that day. Not this, well, gee, nobody skis at Gore on Monday, so, gee, we won't run the chairs. I mean, who's going to fire me? Cuomo? He's happy I saved him money. And he doesn't ski, anyway. But, you see how that becomes self perpetuating, or, as my favorite phrase from 2017 describes it, a self licking ice cream cone. Because, trust me, Benny, and anybody else who has a choice, is never going back there on a Monday. You just lost me. Shame, because I like the mountain, but, I'm not driving hours to be treated like a second class citizen, when I can drive pretty much the same distance and get a much better midweek experience at Kilington or other private Vermont mountains that are beholden to the free market, not the annual ORDA budget.
And, don't even start with responsible spending and it ain't a great idea to run lifts and staff adequately when there aren't many customers. You know, budget concerns and all that. Because, you know why? That friggin multi million dollar white elephant in the form of a new, shiny gondola at Bellayre. Really. Any argument about fiscal responsibility is instantly a pathetic joke when one points at that thing. What, did that thing cost, maybe, twenty million dollars? At least? What were you thinking at ORDA? That thing is possibly one of the worst expenditures of prescious capital I have ever seen at a ski area since Otten went whole hog at the Canyons.

Hey, I like Gore, would love to make it my main mountain, along with my possible move to Saratoga. But, you blew it. There's a reason I've skied Killington for thirty years. Yeah, the place has its issues, but, after all this time, I know that I will be rewarded with a decent skiing experience after driving four plus hours. That's important. But, Gore managers could probably care less. They don't answer to people like me. They answer to politicians. Who don't ski.

First of all the Belleayre gondola was 8 Million, not 20.

Gore has it's issues as does all mountains. The stupid Saddle lodge is like the Bermuda Triangle of the ADKS I swear to God. I thought after they renovated it that it would be ok, but apparently not.  I could rant about the fact that Plattekill only had two ways down the mountain for Christmas week, and no tubing park while the other three Catskill resorts had all main mountain areas operational. But I chose not to.

But back to Gore. I was there Monday and had a great time. It was my first time to Gore this season. I got there about 9 and I guess I didn't notice the quad running, I just saw the gondola running, and I was slightly disappointed. By the time I got up top, Uncas was open to Topridge. I was also slightly disappointed that High Peaks was closed, but I partially expected the terrain to be limited being midweek. IMO, there was plenty of terrain (including a few glades) to keep me entertained for the day. I had a ton of fun.

The day was not easy. I have to drive up Rt. 30 to Rt. 8 from where I live and those roads had a lot of snow on them. Made for a long trip up.  As we are leaving, by buddies car/SUV has a flat tire. Like almost completely.  Neither of us had a compressor, so I went and talked to the guys in the groomer shop and they hooked me up with a compressor. Now by 5:15 we are on the road. Then on our way back, my buddy drives off the road right into a ditch. We had to wait for a bunch of people to pull over, and between a lady with cat litter, a DOT employee, and all of us, we manage to push the Honda Pilot out of the ditch with 7 people. Then we stop for Pizza once we finally hit civilization. We looked so tired, and worn out, and we're wet from the snow, that some guy at the pizza place says to us as we're coming in "what happened to you guys, did you get kicked out of wing night."

Anyway, I had so much fun that I went back to Gore today, and met up with Snoloco. Today was awesome. perfect temperature, not a cloud in the sky, and They had all lifts open. They also had a lot of glades open, and I skied Snoopy's for the first time today! My day on Monday was arguably very frustrating, and I still had a ton of fun. SO much fun that I want back today.

Lighten up Benny, this is America, you can have whatever the f*ck you want, but you're not entitled to any of it!

A few pics from today.







And Monday really wasn't bad either.

You're not getting it. I wouldn't go back to Gore on a Wednesday if Monday sucked. And, it sucked.

I get the frustration you felt with respect to Gore on Monday.  I love the terrain at Gore, particularly when all the glades are in play.  However, as much as I love the terrain there I have pretty much given up on Gore for mid-week day trips, precisely because of the inconsistency with which they open/don’t open lifts mid-week that you both observed.

See, now I kinda want mountainhigh to come in and rip on Bennie, like he does so well.

Anyway, yeah, Gore shuts down mountain areas midweek. We've talked about that for years. Here's ADKJeff & x saying it 7 years ago:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Whiteface-vs-Gore-tp2369085p2369171.html

I've also learned today that 2011 was 7 years ago. Damn.

I too was there on Monday.  I can certainly see how to a "non-regular" it would be disappointing if you expect (rightly so) to explore the many areas.

I see it differently.  The place was empty as expected.  Skied from 9-2 minus 30 mins for a quick bite.  Hours of carving down the front side, about 5 options, GS turns all day, no ice, no people, many runs including Showcase were wide open and zero, yes, zero, people in front or behind us.  No one to showcase to!

Jumped up to the top for 3 or 4 runs. Yes, Lies closed due to icing, but Open Pit to Headwaters was fantastic, as was Hawkeye.   Wanted to go to Burnt Ridge but as mentioned in my report wayyyyy too windy for that chair.  

Did I mention no people? Empty slopes without ice? Carving for hours?  One of the best days there this year.  

MC2 5678F589 wrote

See, now I kinda want mountainhigh to come in and rip on Bennie, like he does so well.

Anyway, yeah, Gore shuts down mountain areas midweek. We've talked about that for years. Here's ADKJeff & x saying it 7 years ago:

http://forum.nyskiblog.com/Whiteface-vs-Gore-tp2369085p2369171.html

I've also learned today that 2011 was 7 years ago. Damn.

Cute, but, I could also search and find my three or four references to my "It's Tuesday, that's why half the mountain is closed" statement from a ski patroller to me on an 18 inch day in 2006. But, I won't. I always use that story to warn people to stay away from Gore on weekdays, and, doh, here I was, getting nailed again. My bad.

Ok, fine, but, why does pricing not reflect this policy? Retail, lift tickets were 78 Monday, as opposed to 86 for the weekend. Trust me, that was no 8 dollars less in service. More like at least thirty dollars. And Gore's midweek season pass pricing hardly reflects the lack of service, either, and that doesn't even get you Friday, right? Just four, crappy, take it or leave it days a week. Killington's midweek pass is substantially cheaper than the full pass, Friday included. Nothing like a nice 18 inch dump at Killington on Tuesday. Everything is open.

Apparently Wednesdays are promotional days, and you can get $45 lift tickets, and they expect a lot of people to show up so they run all the lifts. My recommendation would be to go on a Wednesday. I have a discount card that gets me $30 lift tickets mid-week, so to me, the terrain, and quality of skiing on Monday was a great deal for $30. But I can definitely see why you would think that $78 is way too much for what was available on Monday. No argument there. Mid-week passes should be $45 every day if they're only going to run 3 lifts.

I personally think they need to close Tannerey and let Topridge area grow in. That slope faces due South, and the lift sucks. I always opt to take Cloud traverse off the top rather than riding that chair if I can. Then they should add snowmaking to Wood-out so that you can ski through High Peaks area and take  the North quad back to the saddle. Commit to running the North quad every day instead of the Topridge triple. At least that lift serves some decent terrain that actually holds snow well. Then re-locate the Topridge triple from the bottom of North quad to the top of Burnt Ridge so you don't have to take the Pipeline Traverse to Burnt Ridge.

This would eliminate the need to make snow on two very flat and boring trails, and that snow could be put elsewhere. It would also prioritize having High peaks and North open and just get rid of the Topridge area all together. Or, maybe keep the Topridge pod if necessary and run it only on weekends.

Ethan Snow wrote

I personally think they need to close Tannerey and let Topridge area grow in. That slope faces due South, and the lift sucks. I always opt to take Cloud traverse off the top rather than riding that chair if I can. Then they should add snowmaking to Wood-out so that you can ski through High Peaks area and take  the North quad back to the saddle. Commit to running the North quad every day instead of the Topridge triple. At least that lift serves some decent terrain that actually holds snow well. Then re-locate the Topridge triple from the bottom of North quad to the top of Burnt Ridge so you don't have to take the Pipeline Traverse to Burnt Ridge.

This would eliminate the need to make snow on two very flat and boring trails, and that snow could be put elsewhere. It would also prioritize having High peaks and North open and just get rid of the Topridge area all together. Or, maybe keep the Topridge pod if necessary and run it only on weekends.

I see that you aren't much of a tree skier. Maybe someday you will be, and understand why that chair is vital. Maybe not this week, but, when it snows........

I also share your concerns about lift closures at Gore during the mid week periods. I also am not fond of the glades opening up late and closing early due to lack of ski patrol during the mid week periods. Despite this I still love Gore and really like having nobody there during weekdays.  I have found the staff dedicated and friendly and can’t blame them for management decisions.  Despite all of Gore’s shortcomings, it is an awesome mountain with many hidden treasures.  It is a place stuck in time that I call home. On more than one occasion I have had ski patrol open an untracked glade and offered me first tracks. That goes a long way in my book!!

Benny, you seem angry. Skiing is supposed to be fun.  If you dislike Gore and Belle so much, go to killington.

What a sad and disappointing thread.

ORDA continues to be a marketing disaster. Gore is no longer an undeveloped, big potential area. It is a big time ski area with multi-millions spent on lifts and facilities and it STILL runs about 60% mid week with empty slopes. Does anybody ever have to answer for the failure to generate more than the roughly 200k visits per year that we have seen since 2000? All this expansion was going to increase visits which would in turn increase tax revenue and  increase the number of jobs in the North Creek area.

I guess ORDA  believes that " if you build it and they will come" was a true story? Sadly, the lack of marketing and advertisement for skiing at Gore leads us from a 2011 thread about Gore failing to open up terrain mid-week to today, 7 years later, still discussing the failure to open up terrain mid-week.

What an embarrassment.

The problem with Gore is that it is way more horizontal than vertical. All those different little pods have a lot of great terrain but they need to maintain too many connecting traverses and lifts to keep it all going all the time.  That's what leads to all the other problems, like mid-week lift closures and limited access early in the season and in the Spring to the Straightbrook/High Peaks area.

OTOH all those traverses keep the snowboarders away and makes it easy to avoid crowds when the lifts are in full operation.  That's really what the regulars like about Gore.

mm

Ethan Snow wrote

I could rant about the fact that Plattekill only had two ways down the mountain for Christmas week, and no tubing park while the other three Catskill resorts had all main mountain areas operational. But I chose not to.

There may have only been 2 OPEN ways down during Christmas week, but there were many, mostly untracked, ways down if you looked.

This was taken the 29th:



Like you, I try not to rant or complain too much. But, I do find similarities to both Sno's and Benny's whining. Just sayin'!

You're right. And I think I qualify as a regular.

IMO Gore is a contender for most interesting mountain in NY.

They say that the magic of a tiny house is that you can capture the entire structure in your imagination, all at once.

Gore is the opposite.  It's impossible to capture the whole thing in your mind.  There's always another aspect. Traverses are part of it.

When you get a big pow day, or even when the mountain is 100% open, you can look at your ski partner with wide eyes and say...

"WHERE NEXT?!?"

And you can do that all day long.

Often these days when one lift isn't running you can ski through to another, and that snow has seen a lot less traffic.

Watch what you wish for, Gore ROCKS!

As tBatt said...

Harvey wrote

You're right. And I think I qualify as a regular.

IMO Gore is a contender for most interesting mountain in NY.

I agree.  The only unfortunate part is that terrain opens up slowly in the early season, and the top closes early in the Spring.  What makes it great mid-winter is what ruins early and late seasons.

mm

Milo Maltbie wrote

The problem with Gore is that it is way more horizontal than vertical. All those different little pods have a lot of great terrain but they need to maintain too many connecting traverses and lifts to keep it all going all the time.  That's what leads to all the other problems, like mid-week lift closures and limited access early in the season and in the Spring to the Straightbrook/High Peaks area.

OTOH all those traverses keep the snowboarders away and makes it easy to avoid crowds when the lifts are in full operation.  That's really what the regulars like about Gore.

mm

Not an excuse. Killington is very spread out, but they manage to keep all of those various mountains running midweek, if there's snow. Plenty of traverses. And, I snowboard, too, learned to ride there, so, I can tell you about traversing.

Simple marketing tool that will get people on that hill - midweek specials and discounts. I mean, major duh. But, keep the chairs turning.

Snoloco told me that Pratt was pretty good about keeping as much open as possible during the week, at least in recent years. Can't speak for 2011 as I didn't ski Gore much back then.

Is it possible that the new GM doesn't know what he's dealing with here, and that it's very uncool to cut corners mid-week?

I agree, Gore is probably the most interesting mountain in NY. I continue to go there more often because it just gets more interesting every time I ski there. It's really probably the best place for tree skiing At least in NY state.

I actually think mid week is better than it was years ago. 5-7 years ago darkside and north were almost always closed Monday-Thursday. With the topridge trail closed I would rather the darkside chair running than Topridge. The topridge chair doesn't provide any additional terrain to ski.

But it is frustrating when areas are closed especially when I go up for a few days. I do agree with Benny that having areas closed means people that can choose will choose elsewhere. Weekday tickets at the window aren't even much cheaper than weekends.

tom