ACR Op-Ed Piece In The NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/opinion/a-development-test-in-adirondack-park.html

makes total sense the eco-nuts appeal to their liberal NYC patrons to help beat back folks actually trying to make a living in the park.  Can't have the local hicks think that they can do what they want in their own communities now can we - everyone knows that NYC liberals know what is best for everyone.

For what it's worth, one of the authors lives in Keene, and I don't think the other one is from NYC either.

ausable skier wrote

[A string of old cliches and tired, old stereotypes].

  Thanks for the thoughtful input on the issue.

Face4Me wrote

For what it's worth, one of the authors lives in Keene, and I don't think the other one is from NYC either.

And the developer isn't a "local" either.  I'm not for or against the project - I don't know enough about it.  But AS obviously doesn't either.

everyone knows the NYC Liberals are the reason the FrontStreet Mtn Development project permitted over five years ago is not selling units!!!  Everyone knows its the eco-nuts that caused the bank melt down!!!  Everyone knows that, right??

ScottyJack wrote

everyone knows the NYC Liberals are the reason the FrontStreet Mtn Development project permitted over five years ago is not selling units!!!  Everyone knows its the eco-nuts that caused the bank melt down!!!  Everyone knows that, right??

you so don't know what you speak of

The eco-nuts are local but they get their monetary support from the NYC liberals.  The NYC liberals want to feel like they are helping the enviroment while they live in the land of cement and know nothing about the ADK's.  But being liberal they deeply believe that they are better then everyone else and others need to be have all their decisions made for them by the govt lead by of course the all knowing liberals.  

This op-ed was intended to help the eco-nuts raise funds from the NYC liberals and bend the Gov's arm to their liberal agenda of keeping any and all development in the Park at ZERO jobs be dammed.  Why else would the op-ed run in that paper?  This is a local issue op-eds in local papers don't help the eco-nuts since locals want jobs.  They could justify maybe an op-ed in the Albany paper since they are lobbying the Gov.  But the NY Times is clearly just pandering to their support base.  This is a local issue the folks in NYC should have absolutely no say in the matter.

The banking crisis was caused by Clintion and the Dems led by Barney Frank (doesn't get any more liberal than him)  who used Franny and Fredie to give loans to low income folks (who vote for the dems because they get hand outs from them) who put little money down and had no ability to repay.  The house of cards then came falling down when shock of shocks they defaulted on their loans.

No it wasn't. The banking crisis was created by bankers. They laugh all the way to the (heh) bank with the hundreds of billions in profits they made and bonused themselves while the rest of the country is fed that Fannie Freddie and Frank Fantasy.

Anyway, I had read that a state senator from Brooklyn, of all places, has been the major obstacle in preventing Hunter from expanding. Damn liberals.

edit: After reading that op-ed, I am reminded of how utterly stupid that whole project is. Especially, as mentioned above, nobody is buying into North Creek, a place that has an established ski area and is closer to a population of sorts. "Evidence suggested that the resort’s inflated sales projections are founded largely upon the speculative dreams of the applicant." Indeed.

ausable skier wrote

ScottyJack wrote

everyone knows the NYC Liberals are the reason the FrontStreet Mtn Development project permitted over five years ago is not selling units!!!  Everyone knows its the eco-nuts that caused the bank melt down!!!  Everyone knows that, right??

you so don't know what you speak of

The eco-nuts are local but they get their monetary support from the NYC liberals.  These op-ed was intended to help them raise funds and bend the Gov's arm to their liberal agenda of keeping any and all development in the Park at ZERO jobs be dammed.

The banking crisis was caused by Clintion and the Dems led by Barney Frank (doesn't get any more liberal than him)  who used Franny and Fredie to give loans to low income folks who little money down and had not ability to repay

I don't think Harvey wants politics discussed on this site and I'll respect that.  If I wasn't constrained by forum rules you'd have my boot up your ass right about now.

Benny Profane wrote

 "Evidence suggested that the resort’s inflated sales projections are founded largely upon the speculative dreams of the applicant." Indeed.

Local realtors were canvassed a few months ago about the developer's sales projections and, to a person, found them to be unrealistic.  That certainly concerns me; local realtors are not a group that would naturally tend to oppose a project of this nature.

" During the hearing, the applicant’s marketing and fiscal studies were shown to be incomplete, insubstantial and misleading. "

If this is true, it's pretty shoddy work and not a good sign especially this late in the game. The people behind this project do not inspire confidence, imo.

The PILOT funding and the unrealistic sales projections are what raise a red flag for me. It doesn't matter where you are from or what your agenda is. The question is who is going to buy these places?  This quote, "Only then might we see an alternative that actually makes sense for the park’s environment and marketplace and that concentrates redevelopment where it was intended — around Big Tupper Ski Area." resonates with me. I would love to see TL thrive.  If the developers are so committed to Tupper Lake, why don't they focus on getting the ski area up to speed and redeveloping the land around it?  If that works, then they could work on expanding their plans.

ausable skier wrote

...being liberal they deeply believe that they are better then everyone else and others need to be have all their decisions made for them by the govt lead by of course the all knowing liberals.  

Yup. They're also very untolerant.

ausable skier wrote

 This is a local issue the folks in NYC should have absolutely no say in the matter.

Well, preservation of land is for all. Plus don't forget the ADKs were first set aside to protect the water supply for NYC.

ausable skier wrote

 The banking crisis was caused by Clintion and the Dems led by Barney Frank (doesn't get any more liberal than him)  who used Franny and Fredie to give loans to low income folks (who vote for the dems because they get hand outs from them) who put little money down and had no ability to repay.  The house of cards then came falling down when shock of shocks they defaulted on their loans.

Yeah Aussie! Hard for some to imagine, but lending billions to people who are bad credit risks, have no credit, no down payment, no financial documentation and what the hell "Yea it's an inflated, bubble market, but let's lend 125% of what the house is worth to them anyway AND with no down payment !!! " is a text book way to lose money.

Noah & Goreskimom, Agree with you guys. This project has no chance of success and the development of the ski area is not a priority for these so called developers. When they get their "Order" which is a permit with 30 pages of conditions on friday we can all sit back and watch as the Kool Aiders rejoice and then watch as nothing much happens. Check out the article in yesterdays Adirondack Daily Enterprise that talked with real estate people knowledgeable on the second home market. The only one who was at all optomistic was some Damp guy from Placid who has been involved with the developers from day one and thinks he will be making big bucks off the sales. The bigger problem  I have with this project is the fact that the developers have been promising to rebuild the ski area as the centerpiece of the resort but now they say they will only do that after 3ys if there are enought real estate sales to justify it. How do you sell ski resort realestate if you don't start with developing the main draw for skiers  first? They also sold off the perfectly good snowmaking system within the past 2 yrs, right down to selling the pumps, compressors, control panels, electric transformers and even pulled the wire off the hill needed just to plug in a fan jet. Remember they also inflated their estimated selling prices of the properties over 50% from 2005 to 2010 while the rest of the realestate market plummeted. Here is a great quote from an article in Ski Mag Nov 2011, "Ski industry real estate expert James Chung has a blunt assessment of investors who expect mountain home prices to rebound to the pre-crash days, "They're on Drugs". Even if they somehow manage to get this longshot off the ground the local will see their tax bill increasing not decreasing.  As proposed now the developers will need to sell (and have assessed on the tax rolls) 46 MILLION DOLLARS worth of property just to make the bond payments. The town, county and school will not receive a penny in tax revenue unless they sell more than the 46 Million and then they only get whats left over to split. They would be crazy to agree to this arrangement but they seem ready to do so on the promises from the shady developers whose financial history is a whole nother post.

Watch the ACR meeting Live! Kick-off @ 1:30

http://nysapa.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2

ausable skier wrote

...being liberal they deeply believe that they are better then everyone else and others need to be have all their decisions made for them by the govt lead by of course the all knowing liberals.  

In response Snowballs wrote "Yup. They're also very intolerant."

Really??  I don't think the Liberals have the intolerance market cornered.  I would have to say that I know a few intolerant conservatives as well.   I won't even get involved in the argument over who is responsible for the mortgage crisis. (Although I do know a few Wall Streeters from my area that seemed to emerge from it fairly unscathed.)  

ScottyJack wrote

everyone knows the NYC Liberals are the reason the FrontStreet Mtn Development project permitted over five years ago is not selling units!!!  Everyone knows its the eco-nuts that caused the bank melt down!!!  Everyone knows that, right??

Sarcasm ScottyJack??

I think trying to sell attached units in the $700,000 range may be in part to blame for the lack of sales, NYC Liberals or no.  Although they are ski-in ski-out!

That said, I'm all for allowing the Big Tupper development to move forward.  However, I can't believe that it will be successful in the short term, and I'd say its prospects for the long term are sketchy as best.  Hope my tax dollars aren't funding ANY of it.

CMR wrote

That said, I'm all for allowing the Big Tupper development to move forward.  However, I can't believe that it will be successful in the short term, and I'd say its prospects for the long term are sketchy as best.  Hope my tax dollars aren't funding ANY of it.

  Any concern about the mess that might be left behind when and if this developer calls it quits and pulls out?  Somebody mentioned a bond - I'm assuming for infrastructure, water/sewer.  What happens if that bond remains unpaid when/if this entire thing falls on its face?  Who pays it off?

I have no problem with a resort/development in Tupper Lake.  I have no problem with large, luxurious second homes.  In fact, I'd love to see this happen if it's viable and real.  I just don't want to see the region's key selling point (relatively unspoiled wilderness) threatened and I REALLY don't want to see that little town get bamboozled and left high and dry.  

Noah John wrote

I don't think Harvey wants politics discussed on this site and I'll respect that.  If I wasn't constrained by forum rules you'd have my boot up your ass right about now.

I appreciate this Noah John.  I don't want to censor anyone, but in my experience liberals and conservatives don't often really listen to each other, so political discussions seem to diminish the signal/noise ratio.

Here's the link for the streaming meeting:

http://nysapa.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?view_id=2&event_id=153

I just listened for a bit and it seems that the APA is planning to have a decision by Friday.

Hard to believe that after all this time, it's going to be a done deal in a few days.

Curious - can the parties appeal the APA's decision?