ADE: North Creek development isn’t equal to Tupper Lake’s

From the Adirondack Daily Enterprise:

North Creek development isn’t equal to Tupper Lake’s
May 19, 2011

By JESSICA COLLIER

LAKE PLACID - The Adirondack Club and Resort development, proposed for Tupper Lake, has often been compared to the developments near Gore Mountain in North Creek.

But several officials involved with the North Creek project said Wednesday that it's impossible to compare the two.

Johnsburg town Supervisor Sterling Goodspeed and Gore Mountain Ski Resort Manager Mike Pratt, along with Jim Martin of the LA Group, gave a two-session-long presentation about the history of, current state of and potential for development in North Creek at the Adirondack Research Consortium annual conference.

Goodspeed said town officials had the goal of connecting the popular state-run Gore ski area with the hamlet across state Route 28. The most important part of that was forming a partnership between the town and the state Olympic Regional Development Authority to create a system of trails and ski lifts called the Interconnect to link the North Creek Ski Bowl, which sits on town-owned land, with Gore.


Full Adirondack Daily Enterprise Story

That is a very telling article. As I suspected NC administration seems to one of the reasons behind the multiple failed developments in North Creek. For Goodspeed to compare Top Ridge with a build out of 62 townhouses to the Front Street project with 135 townhouses, 18 single family homes, 5 hotels, retail, spa, golf course and other amenities shows a real lack of scale. Some of the Top Ridge property seems to overlap the partially completed (8 units out of maybe 60) Pine Ridge development from the late 1980s. That area was already approved once. I am sure it was easy to repeat the process. Front Street could be 5 to 10 times the size including a waste removal system. We can only imagine what the NC is asking for as I saw these comments from Goodspeed last October also. There was a reason that NC planning meetings did not have a quorum twice in recent months. Just a little pressure on Front Street before the permits expire.

I read that article today . . . I thought the most interesting part is that Front Street's permits are running out, and they might not even be able to show their models home if they can't get them renewed . . .

Front Street will get their permits renewed/extended. It's not a matter of "if", but "when". This is a case of a town supervisor who is just way out of his element and trying to match wits with a developer who lacks experience working with the public sector. meanwhile on the town side, the town board has been uncooperative and has gone out of their way to throw up obstacles. There is something fishy going on. The town hired away Front Street's wastewater engineers as the new town engineer and now the town supervisor rents an office from the new town engineer. Does this sound like "arms length" dealing? When it comes to dealing with the town of Johnsburg, there is usually more to the story than meets the eye. At least under the current administration. Front Street seemed to progress much more smoothly before the change in town supervisors.

Pratt said the ski area has been selling more tickets every year; also, the number of people coming from farther away and staying overnight, rather than just day-tripping, has increased significantly.


Where are they staying?

Traffic around town during the holiday weeks this past season did not feel like an increase in destination visitors.

adkskier wrote

Front Street will get their permits renewed/extended. It's not a matter of "if", but "when". This is a case of a town supervisor who is just way out of his element and trying to match wits with a developer who lacks experience working with the public sector. meanwhile on the town side, the town board has been uncooperative and has gone out of their way to throw up obstacles. There is something fishy going on. The town hired away Front Street's wastewater engineers as the new town engineer and now the town supervisor rents an office from the new town engineer. Does this sound like "arms length" dealing? When it comes to dealing with the town of Johnsburg, there is usually more to the story than meets the eye. At least under the current administration. Front Street seemed to progress much more smoothly before the change in town supervisors.

Agree. Though it may all work out fine, this Bowl Village is starting to smell fishy. The current situation is just odd, weird.

I mean, the town's been pushing this project hard for years saying it was necessary for their very survival. The State's already invested it's 5 mill +. Now Front Street is way behind on construction ( essantially haven't even begun ) and is teetering on being completely dead in the water. The Town appears to be distancing itself from the project maybe even being obstructive.

What the Heck!???

Topridge Townhouses isn't having these problems. They're advancing and bringing the developement to market.

It's early to say this, but it's "almost" like the Bowl Village might flush and those involved, FS and Town leaders, are positioning themselves to avoid any Poo that will fly.

heard from a contractor in Indian Lake who was receiving a Lumber Delivery. The delivery truck showed up on the site with way more material than he ordered. The driver told him not to worry, most of the lumber was being returned to the yard because the Front Street developer told him not to unload it they were stopping work indefinitely. Doesn't sound to good for NC. I guess all the rich folks will just go up to Tupper Lake and pay even bigger bucks for a smaller ski area development,  that will take a leap of faith to big for most people. Especially now that one of the main investors has a federal tax lien against all his properties to the tune of over $88000. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

endoftheline wrote

 the Front Street developer told him not to unload it they were stopping work indefinitely. Doesn't sound to good for NC.

Huh. IMO, it seems there is something fundamental wrong with this project.

endotheline wrote

 ....one of the main investors has a federal tax lien against all his properties to the tune of over $88000. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

Does that refer to the Tupper Lake project or Front Street? Just checking.

It sure is funny how all of you people that have posted here, have never been at a Town of Johnsburg Board meeting or a TOJ planning board meeting, but you all know more than anyone else. Hmmm...
 

The main investor in the ACR project in Tupper Lake has the $88000. federal tax lien against any property in his name. They are also aprox $100000. in arrears on their property and school taxes on the Big Tupper ski area and the Marina they own. The article in the Explorer last month by Brian Mann was very good. The likelyhood of this pipedream ever happening are remote at best.

Darkside Shaman wrote

It sure is funny how all of you people that have posted here, have never been at a Town of Johnsburg Board meeting or a TOJ planning board meeting, but you all know more than anyone else. Hmmm...

How do YOU know? I do not see many names on this board.

Darkside Shaman wrote

It sure is funny how all of you people that have posted here, have never been at a Town of Johnsburg Board meeting or a TOJ planning board meeting, but you all know more than anyone else. Hmmm...

By the same token, you're free to offer up any information you have Shaman. Not sure what you're alluding to, but it's hard to think everything is all peachy keen at the Ski Bowl Village.

check out the articles at www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com on the ACR development. No real plans to upgrade the ski area in the early phases of the project. June 2010 updated crazy estimated selling prices of ACR homes made up out of thin air by lead developer Foxman. lots of gobledygook doublespeak by so called fiscal experts. Even the APA questioned why they weren't refurbishing ski area in early years. So much for getting back to real skiing at Big Tupper anytime soon.

There could be something fishy going on with the Johnsburg Town Board. Interesting that the town supervisor doesn't even live in the town anymore!

Snowballs wrote

By the same token, you're free to offer up any information you have Shaman. Not sure what you're alluding to, but it's hard to think everything is all peachy keen at the Ski Bowl Village.

I would also offer that all the miscues by the Johnsburg Politicos " maybe " a deliberate smoke screen providing cover for the SB Village/Front Street's problems. That happens sometimes in these situations.

IDA unsure of resort PILOT

http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/524888/IDA-unsure-of-resort-PILOT.html

I found this following paragraph very odd. Though not necessarily nefarious it does seriously raise the question Why?.

"John Caffry, attorney for Protect the Adirondacks, obtained the documents through Freedom of Information requests to the IDA. He fought with attorneys for Preserve Associates, the resort's development group, to get the documents submitted into the hearing record. In order to do so, he agreed not to question Adore Kurtz, executive director of the Clinton County Industrial Development Agency, about them."

Caffry had to resort to a FOIL request to obtain documents from a public agency, the IDA. Why? They should be readily available. Anyone should be able to walk into that office and obtain copies of the documents without running a gauntlet.

Then, the developer's Atty made him agree not to question the IDA on these documents under oath. Who the hell does he think he is ? That's none of his business and is a condition I never would have agreed to. Surrender rights to examine a witness on the stand? HA! As if.

" Caffry expressed exasperation that Kurtz responded to many of his questions about the PILOT by saying she had limited familiarity with this particular project."

Oh really?

" Last week when he questioned Jim Martin, a financial consultant from the LA Group, Martin had directed him to defer questioning on the PILOT for Kurtz, since she was the expert witness being called to testify on the topic."

Surprise, surprise. She lied. A goverment offical deliberately deceiving the public in a matter that's heading to court.

It's been my experience when push comes to shove and you are going to put bureaucratic people on the witness stand, they suddenly lose they're bravado, they get nervous and start jockeying for shelter and plausible deniablity. Think Sgt. Shultz..." I know nothing!". They hate and strongly resist making statements on the Court's record as it's one area they can't edit to their benefit and face liabilities from if they lie.

It appears the IDAs, et al are attempting to run interference for this project and it's backers. Furthermore, they appear to be working in concert towards that goal. There's a word for that. It begins with C.

These IDAs and such tend to operate just on the edge of legality, frequently obscuring info, refusing to cooperate or even sometimes refusing to admit John Q or the media to their meetings in spite of open meeting laws and IRS not for profit regs. They frequently handle very large amounts of public money and make huge decisions for the public yet they love closed doors and frequently don't even open their books or submit to County comptroller audits.

Most Lawyers who work with Govs, investments are very skilled at keeping a lid on things and keeping their flock protected but they are never foolproof.

Hearings and trials are more than venues to determine responsiblity. They are " Tryers of fact ", vehicles that lead to discovery and revealation of facts. Such is their purpose. Subpoenas, rules of court, oaths, and other laws can be very powerful tools for investigation. Gotta love it.

Hopefully, the oppositon will keep pushing, if for no other reason than just to get all the facts out. This is fair and reasonable.

Hopefully,John Caffry, attorney for Protect the Adirondacks, will not cave in again. There is something big they didn't want him to ask Kurtz and Kurtz did not want to answer. that's why she lied about any knowedge of the situation. Caffry caved and let them off the hook when he should have went for the kill, so to speak.

Things may be all well and good with this project but it has and continues to smell very fishy. The more the opposition stirs the pot, the more it stinks and it's instigators scramble cover. Das bad JuJu.

From the same article as linked above....

"A PILOT agreement, if approved by the IDA, would exempt the development project from regular property taxes. Property owners there would instead make payments equal to what the property taxes would have otherwise been, but that money would first go to pay off $42 million in four phases of bonding for the project's infrastructure. Any leftover revenue would be paid to the local taxing jurisdictions - the Tupper Lake Central School District, the town of Tupper Lake and Franklin County - in proportion to what normal payments would be.

ACR developers are proposing that their PILOT agreement be a tiered one. Under the first tier, the PILOT would go into effect for main developers.

Once they sell off properties, they want the PILOT to enter a second tier, in which a new property owner would pay at a rate equal to the current local tax rates, applied to whatever he or she paid for the property.

A third tier was proposed for lots in an Empire Zone, a state tax-break designation that is being phased out."


I've read several times that this is how the PILOT (Payment In Lieu Of Taxes) would work.^^^^

Sooooo, the $42 million dollar question is.......

Anybody?

Ok, What does the Developer have pay back? Does the ACR Developer pay nothing back for the $42 million loan to build his properties? Why isn't the money from the sales of his homes not applied toward this huge loan?

I've read more than a few articles on this, even explanations from  ARISE, the Developer and Gov Officials on how the PILOT would work, but no one has said the Developer pays back ANY money.

Note the wording....

"Property owners there would instead make payments equal to what the property taxes would have otherwise been, but that money would first go to pay off $42 million in four phases of bonding for the project's infrastructure."

" ACR developers are proposing that their PILOT agreement be a tiered one. Under the first tier, the PILOT would go into effect for main developers.

Once they sell off properties, they want the PILOT to enter a second tier, in which a new property owner would pay at a rate equal to the current local tax rates, applied to whatever he or she paid for the property."

So, is it simply to fund infrastructure such as water/sewage/whatever? Wonder where this is spelled out with specifics? Don't other developers pay for their own infrastructure? Don't other utilities pay for their own systems with their own bonds ? Why would the Developer be mixed up in this?

It may be that he funds his properties and the Pilot funds the utilities,etc. but I've not seen it spelled out clearly. In fact, I've seen wording that indicates the PILOT would fund the building of the resort.

Anybody know for sure?

And what the hay are these Sub-PILOTS mentioned in the article that the IDA people have no idea of how they work, what they are and what sub-PILOT agreement the Developers are talking about ?

Just curious. I've seen plenty of developers pay for roads, etc and utilities pay for their own systems.

SB, you're right about the PILOT being a scam.  It is a vehicle for the developers to have their infrastructure costs onto the public sector.   The town gets screwed out of the tax revenue it otherwise would have received.  

You may also be interested in this article.  This may be the article "End of the Line" refers to several posts above  ^^^.

SB, just one other point regarding the PILOT:

What you describe as the "first tier" of the PILOT is a traditional PILOT arrangement and is used frequently.
It is the second tier that makes this PILOT completely different and makes this arrangement a scam.
It is customary for a PILOT to be in place while the property is developed, but as you point out, when the property is sold the PILOT gets paid off from the sales proceeds.  The second tier that is proposed for the ACR is essentially unheard of.  It allows the PILOT to NOT get paid off when the property is sold, and instead the property taxes that WOULD HAVE BEEN paid by the new owner go towards paying the PILOT until it is retired.  So it is the public sector (i.e. the Town of Tupper Lake and Franklin County) that gets screwed out of property tax revenue it otherwise would have collected.  The developer gets a free ride on all of the development costs that are paid for with PILOT proceeds and funded by the public sector.

Supporters of ACR all talk around this issue, but the bottom line is it's a scam and it is a distortion of what a PILOT normally is.  By calling it a "PILOT" they hope to disguise their scam as a legitimate financing arrangement, but it is not.