ADE: North Creek development isn’t equal to Tupper Lake’s

PILOT has some legitimate uses.  I think it was originally design to compensate towns for lost property tax on federal land or lands owned by non-profits who don't pay tax. It's occasionally used to create a local taxpayer subsidy for private development, but that is more the exception than the rule. In those cases it almost always done in rural, economically struggling areas, to bring in jobs that could go elsewhere.

I don't understand the details as well as Jeff, but this case could be fully unique. For one thing, I don't see this project actually going elsewhere.

Snowballs and ADK Jeff: you are both spot on about the PILOT being a Scam to get the public to pay for the ACR infrastructure. It's quite obvious to anyone looking at this objectively. Snowballs: Caffry didn't cave on the IDA documents. Questioning Kurtz would have done nothing since she didn't have any knowledge of those documents. This is a tactic the ACR is using in the hearings, put up "expert" witnesses who have little knowledge of the topic they are testifying about and the opposing side can't get any real answers to the questions. Caffry had to resort to FOIL to get the IDA/PILOT documents because the ACR lawyers did not provide them through the Discovery demands that Caffry filed. The ACR lawyers said there were NO documents about this issue. Caffry wasn't fooled and through his FOIL request obtained over 100 pages from the IDA. Many emails etc from Foxman, Tubbs(head of FCIDA), IDA Bond counsel, county legislator, etc.  These documents show clearly that FCIDA and their Bond counsed had never heard of this type of PILOT and questioned its legality. Tubbs even revealed that it was the developers lawyer requesting this type of PILOT, even though there was no precedent for it and they couldn't find another project where this type of PILOT has ever been used. The Appplication to the APA from the developers states clearly that the project is not economically viable wihtout the PILOT. Of course it isn't, just look at the state of the Resort realestate situation. But if you can sucker a bunch of yokels to pay off 42 MILLION of infrastructure costs the project why not try? The Sub PILOT is even more ridiculous. After realizing that once they developer sells off a parcel to an individual it would no longer qualify for the PILOT they came up with this hair brained idea. Ready? In the Sub PILOT each individual property owner would have their own PILOT Program on thier individual parcel of land. Sound crazy? Absolutley! Again, check out the articles in the Adirondack Daily Enterprise on line and Jessica Colliers Blog, fairly good reporting on this, finally. Snowballs, one of the documents the judge didn't allow was Tom Lawsons federal tax lien for not paying income tax in 2009 to the tune of $88700. The documents he did allow were the ones showning the developer was behing on School and Property taxes on the properties owned by the ACR in the amount of about $100000. I guess they will try to get these paid through the PILOT program also.

Endo ... in your best estimate, what is going happen? Is the project going to make it through approvals or is it DOA?

Harvey, Hard to say. My best guess is the APA will give the project some form of "permit" with conditions. If thier preliminary permit conditions list is any indication the ACR may never get off the ground. They may be required to get all other regulatory permits from all the other agencies first: DEC(and that is a huge one), Dept of Health(subdivisions etc),Comptrollers office( Homeowners assoc./HOA) which is also problematic because the HOA would be responsible for operating and overseeing the on site privately owned Sewage Plant. My real problem is that the developers have publicly backed away from Big Tupper as a primary consideration. The APAs list of preliminary permit condittions listed replacing chair 2 in the first 3 yrs, the developer wants up to 6 yrs. In reality the old chair 1 should be replaced ASAP as it serves the best terrain on the hill. The area also has no snowmaking capability as the developer sold off the main pumps and compressors in the fall of 2009 and thier current plan shows only "begin upgrading snowmaking" in the 3rd year of the project. Thier main objective is to sell Great Camp lots as it always has been. My other main concern is the PILOT/Financing of this project. If, and its a big IF, they get the PILOT it could raise the existing locals tax burden disproportionatlely because the rich luxury second homeowners wont be contributing their fair share of taxes to the Town, School and County. Most of their taxes will be used to pay off the developers infranstructure cost, costs which most legitimate developers pay themselves and build into the cost of the project. It's no wonder they want the PILOT, who wouldn't, if I could get $42 Million basically free to pay my costs I'd want that too. The local town board seems willing to ignore the reality that the developer can't pay his current taxes on the project property and his partner has a federal tax lien against him for $88000. I,m all for the redevelopment of Big Tupper but it needs to make sense, the current plan doesn't even come close.

Just got a look at another document that points to the ACR heading toward implosion. Keep your eyes and ears open in the next week or so. Should prove interesting.

Endo, you seem to have a really good grasp of the issues with ACR / Big Tupper.  I've been following the developments as much as I can (it's hard to keep up), and your summary above is pretty much right on.  The Adirondack Daily Enterprise, North Country Public Radio, and others have all been doing a great job covering the developments.  Since this is a ski forum, and presumably since the fate of the Big Tupper ski area is the part of the ACR story with which readers are most interested, readers might be interested in this recent story:
It ain't no ski resort!
For all the money and effort that supporters/promoters of ACR are putting into their project (esp the public money siphoned off via the PILOT), you gotta wonder wouldn't the Town of TL be better off in the end by simply investing their money directly into the ski area and operating it themselves, similar to Old Forge and McCauley Mtn, and forget about ACR.  You can have the chicken - egg debate all you want, but maybe economic development would naturally occur around a viable, stable ski area.  To me, that seems a lot more sensible, less risky and less expensive in the long run versus the "silver bullet" people are expecting ACR to be.

Jeff,  i agree the town of TL should be the owner of the ski area. The problem is the town originally built and operated the ski area and opted to sell it in 1986. The dolt who ran for town supervisor that year ran on a platform of selling the ski area and saving the taxpayers money. He was elected and they sold it, of course the taxes never went down. The area ran a small loss some years, a small profit some years, basically a break even situation. The town would never agree to own/operate it again. They have fallen hook-line and sinker for this shady/sheister so called developer who can't/won't pay his propery taxes on the Mountain, has a Federal Bailout to the tune of SIX HUNDRED EIGHTY MILLION DOLLARS for the failed S & L he founded. Now his partner, this Lawson guy, has federal tax liens for failure to pay income tax for 2007,2008 and 2009 totaling almost $550,000. They are looking for the taxpayers to fund their infrastructure for the project through the PILOT for about 40 MILLION DOLLARS, with developers like this the town would be better off if they just disappeared before they send the town down the tiolet. Just found out the developer is paying the Towns' attorney big $$'s to supposedly represent the town, no conflict there of course. This whole ACR thing justs gets worse and worse. But the real problem is that they really don't give a hoot about skiing or getting the mountain back up and running anytime soon. They don't plan on any snowmaking for 3 plus years, no lift replacement for 6 plus years etc etc. Lots of big promises but when you scrutinize the plans you see that this is really just a big realestate scam.  And with the economy the way it is this whole boondogle will never happen. The hardcore supporters of the ACR will say , "but TL need something" and I agree, but not this fiasco of Plan.

endoftheline wrote

Jeff,  i agree the town of TL should be the owner of the ski area. The problem is the town originally built and operated the ski area and opted to sell it in 1986. The dolt who ran for town supervisor that year ran on a platform of selling the ski area and saving the taxpayers money. He was elected and they sold it, of course the taxes never went down.

You would hope that what didn't fly 25 yrs ago could stand a chance now, but I recognize that opinions can be quite rigid and memories quite long, probably more so in a rural, economically stressed community like TL.   The WILD Center has been positive for TL, I'd like to think that the ski area could have a positive impact on its own (i.e. as a town-owned facility) without all of the shady baggage of ACR.

Jeff, it would be great if the town leaders could see past the ACR but they are totally drunk on the Koolaid. They do have the power however, through the local planning board to get a better project out of the developer that could benefit the community and especially the skiers in the event the ACR tanks in the future. The planning board has the utlitmate say in the permitting process, even if ACR gets an APA permit they still need a local permit issued by the planning board. As part of the Towns' permit conditions they should require that the ski area gets rebuilt early in the project, ie. replace chair #1 in the first year, replace sold off snowmaking equipment and repair existing system to full functionality in year one. That way if the project goes bust at least the ski area would have a chance at some other entity, possibly the town, to own or operate. The current plan allows the developer to sell of large parcels of land with no connection to the ski area, that way if things don't pan out the developer bolts with no investment in the ski area at all.  All indications are those are exactly their plan. Just heard from a friend in Tupper that the ski area is going to be operated next season by the ARISE group/Volunteers. So even though the developers will have some type of permit from the APA by fall they are already committed to not funding the ski area at all. Of course with their financial problems(overdue property taxes, federal tax liens etc) that is to be expected.

6-24-11  Day 19

Hearing Phase complete.

Closing statements/briefs next.

All hearings archived on Adirondack Park Agency Site - http://nysapa.granicus.com/ViewPublisher.php?view_id=2

Another interesting tidbit of info on the ACR. The developer, Foxman has been paying the Town of TLs' attorney for over a year and all through the Adjudicatory Hearings. Gee, I wonder whos' interests he is representing? At $185.00/hour I could venture a guess as to whos' position he represented. Keep in mind this developer stopped paying a consultant that the town hired(The Hudson Group) to help them review the project when he didn't like some of the questions/findings the Hudson Group came up with. And from  what I watched and listened to during the hearings it was obvious the ACR attorneys' were the pupeteers pulling the strings attached to the Town attorney. The local taxpayers were totally unrepresented at these hearings. Really sad for the skiers, town attorney is a skier from what I've heard and he never once questioned the developers about the phasing which showed the ski area as a very low priority. I'm no fan of the APA but at least they questioned the developer about their obvious lack of committment to rebuilding the ski area in the early phase of the project.

endoftheline wrote

...the phasing which showed the ski area as a very low priority. I'm no fan of the APA but at least they questioned the developer about their obvious lack of committment to rebuilding the ski area in the early phase of the project.

What I heard is in line with this - most or all of the snow guns have been sold.

Granted that's not the most expensive part of the system, but it's probably the easiest to sell.

Harvey, Yes most of the snow guns have been sold but they are also the easier and least expensive parts of the snowmaking system to restore. The bigger problem is the fact that the developer sold off the main water pumps and compressors needed to get water and air up the hill. These were sold off in the fall of 2009 just as the group of volunteers were working their butts off to get the area open. My excellent source said the pumps and compressors were sold to Ski Sundown in CT and Greek Peak. When called out on this, the developer admitted to selling but stated that the equipment was old/outdated and would be replaced with all new more efficient hardware. As far as I am able to determine the technology for pumping water uphill and compressing air hasn't changed a whole lot recently so the developers claims ring hollow. The equipment was installed new in the mid 90's and only used for about 5 yrs before closing. Some of the hardcore ACR supporters have stated that the snowmaking equipment was sold off by the prior owners of the ski area but this is totally false, the current owner/developer sold them off to raise capital. Obviously that hasn't really done much since they can't/won't pay their propery and scholl taxes(over $100,000. in arrears), Lawson(main investor) has  federal income tax liens against any properties in his name for over $500,000., tax yrs 07,08,09 and you can bet he hasn't paid any income tax for 2010. I'd say the chances of Big Tupper being rebuilt and open to the public under the current ACR proposal are slim to none. To bad its a good little hill that generally gets descent snow and was a great amenity for the local populace. Just wish these ACR guys would adjust their plan to the current economic reality and come up with a better plan for everyone.

New story in the Adirondack Daily Enterprise, www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com showing the developers lack of committment to the ski area. This is a slap in the face to all the people in Tupper Lake who support this project. When are they going to wake up and DEMAND that the ski area be priority # 1 as has been promised by the ACR for years???? Lets hope the Adriondack Daily Enterprise follows up on this story with some comments from the developers as to why they are now backing away from their promises of rebuilding the ski area early in the project.

When is the issue going to be decided?

Tupper Village board: Open Big Tupper, ‘or else’:  

http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/525352/

Based on what I can see the earliest the APA will make a decision would be mid to late November but more likely early in 2012. Again, check out the latest article in the Adirondack Daily Enterprise. Village mayor calls Foxman on Big Tupper redevelopment schedule in the project. From the hearings it's obvious that Big Tupper is a low priority for them. They have been dangling the Carrot of the ski area for years, now that its crunch time they are backing away from early redevelopment. At least the Village board seems to have some common sense, now if only the Town Board and Planning Boards would step up and call Foxman out maybe Big Tupper will have a chance. I don't see that happening anytime soon though.

Harvey44 wrote

When is the issue going to be decided?

Good question. I'd need to confirm, but the 90 day clock may have begun ticking when the adjudicatory hearings closed. OTOH, the clock may have been voluntarily suspended by the applicants.

ALJ set July 15 for parties to comment on proposed closing statement/briefing phase.  During final hearing a 30 day brief, 30 day reply brief was discussed but not ordered by ALJ.  All closing statements, briefs, reply briefs will be written and part of official record.  These are basically position papers.  

ALJ will set a schedule after July 15.

Agency review time clocks does not start until ALJ officially closes the record and transmits to Agency.

At that point the time clock is a 60 day time clock.  

90 day major review includes 30 days to determine if hearing is needed once application was deemed complete - which happened in Feb 2007.  Once set to hearing the time clock was suspended until the official close of hearing - which hasn't happened yet.  

Wow, the ARISE group just proved they are a branch of the ACR, see the article in 7/2/11 Adirondack Daily Enterprise. They actually denigrtated the Tupper Lake Village Board for asking that the ACR do what it has been promising everyone, open the ski area early in the project. ARISE now feels this is a bad thing? And a thinly vieled threat that the ACR may not allow skiing at the area at all. You must read it to believe it. The village board is on the right track, lets hope the Town Baord and Planning Board follows the lead.