ATTN: MR. MIKE PRATT

Noah John wrote

skiDork wrote

Why is that so hard to grasp.

Because it's not true.

yearly numbers would say otherwise

skiDork wrote

yearly numbers would say otherwise

Nobody's arguing that many Vermont areas don't average more snowfall than WF.  That doesn't necessarily translate into "better conditions" as you continue to mindlessly assert.  So you just stay over there with the rest of the trash on your little green mounds taking whatever solace you can from the fact that you got 5" out of the last storm cycle and WF only got 3".  I'll take steeper terrain, longer runs and more vertical over a little more snow any day.  I skied Vermont my whole life until I discovered WF.  Now I rarely go over there.  Utah gets more snow than Montana.  I'd still rather ski in Montana than in Wasangles.  WF is just better than Vermont for a whole host of reasons and that gap is never going to be bridged because "on average" Vermont gets more snowfall.  If you don't get this - I don't care.

I just stepped in here, are we comparing Kitzbuehl to Hokkaido?

I know what Kitzbuehl is!!!!  Have to google this Hokkaido?
 
Noah loves to stir da pot....  

Harvey44 wrote

I've been following skimore since 2006 on various forums. He's got a ton of NY skiing experience - Central NY, Tug, Adk BC and the NY lift served resorts.  Seems like he looks for the shortest drive to powder. Sometimes that's in NY and sometimes it's in VT.

Yes he’s a former participant in two now dead forums and one known for being populated by flamers.  Is that the model you seek to emulate here?

How do repeated inflammatory over generalizations like (paraphrasing) “All VT areas are better than all NY areas” by someone with "a ton of NY skiing experience" contribute to this forum?

nvk497 wrote

Harvey44 wrote

I've been following skimore since 2006 on various forums. He's got a ton of NY skiing experience - Central NY, Tug, Adk BC and the NY lift served resorts.  Seems like he looks for the shortest drive to powder. Sometimes that's in NY and sometimes it's in VT.

Yes he’s a former participant in two now dead forums and one known for being populated by flamers.  Is that the model you seek to emulate here?

How do repeated inflammatory over generalizations like (paraphrasing) “All VT areas are better than all NY areas” by someone with "a ton of NY skiing experience" contribute to this forum?

If you're suggesting that the guy be banned or censored in any way then I completely disagree.  He has every right to his opinions; and you to yours.  To me these forums are only interesting to the extent that people voice their opinions and then defend them.  Sometimes it leads to a silly stalemate (like the Vermont/NY thing always does).  But other times it's just great theater.  It's absolutely fascinating to tease out from people the basis for the opinions they express on these web sites.  You see all sorts of interesting human foibles and logical fallacies on display:  Confirmation bias, conflating causation with correlation, appeals to complexity, appeals to authority - we's got 'em all - and more!  

So let Skimore speak.  I'm not suggesting that all opinions are created equal because they're not.  Some are well reasoned and thoroughly thought through.  Others are shit on a piece of cardboard.  Most are somewhere in-between.  I like 'em all (for completely different reasons).

Cool...only had to look up "foibles"

nvk497 wrote

How do repeated inflammatory over generalizations like (paraphrasing) “All VT areas are better than all NY areas” by someone with "a ton of NY skiing experience" contribute to this forum?

Is that really "inflammatory"?  C'mon!  It's just skiing - how "inflammatory" could it possibly be?

Noah John wrote

If you're suggesting that the guy be banned or censored in any way

Who said anything about banning anyone?  I'm just curious  a) why anyone who holds NY skiing in such low esteem participates in a NY skiing forum and  b) why Harvey 44 feels compelled to speak for / defend  Skimore.

nvk497 wrote

Noah John wrote

If you're suggesting that the guy be banned or censored in any way

Who said anything about banning anyone?  I'm just curious  a) why anyone who holds NY skiing in such low esteem participates in a NY skiing forum and  b) why Harvey 44 feels compelled to speak for / defend  Skimore.

I'll take a stab at those:

a)  Because all he hears in here is how awesome NY skiing is and it's a tiresome circle jerk; and
b)  Because skimore was getting slammed pretty good because he's outnumbered and he's actually got a lot of balls criticizing NY skiing in a NY ski forum and Harvey doesn't want him to feel unappreciated and just leave.

There once was a ski forum named Alpine Zone.............

Noah John wrote

 
There once was a ski forum named Alpine Zone.............

Oh no you di int

campgottagopee wrote

Cool...only had to look up "foibles"

really? you got "conflating causation" - i gots to find me some new greak peeps to ski with...  

nvk497 wrote

Who said anything about banning anyone?  I'm just curious  a) why anyone who holds NY skiing in such low esteem participates in a NY skiing forum and  b) why Harvey 44 feels compelled to speak for / defend  Skimore.

I've only contended you can find better conditions accross the way.

gorgonzola wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Cool...only had to look up "foibles"

really? you got "conflating causation" - i gots to find me some new greak peeps to ski with...  

No, if I can't pronounce it I don't need to know what it means

Noah John wrote

  You see all sorts of interesting human foibles and logical fallacies on display:  Confirmation bias, conflating causation with correlation, appeals to complexity, appeals to authority - we's got 'em all - and more!  

Yeah, that's some great internet there.  I do not understand it or know what all the words mean but I def laughed!

These are a few of the anti-NY TRs that skimore has posted over the years:
http://firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8379&p=49755#p49755
http://firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7364&p=39609#p39609
http://firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6685&p=33083#p33083
http://firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6534&p=31537#p31537
http://firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6486&p=31195#p31195
http://firsttracksonline.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7677&p=42342#p42342

nvk497 wrote

Yes he’s a former participant in two now dead forums and one known for being populated by flamers.  Is that the model you seek to emulate here?

How do repeated inflammatory over generalizations like (paraphrasing) “All VT areas are better than all NY areas” by someone with "a ton of NY skiing experience" contribute to this forum?

If skimore said all VT areas are better than NY areas, I disagree.

I wasn't defending anyone, just stating what I had seen.  It's a fact that I've been reading posts/TRs by skimore for (+/-) 5 years. It's also a fact that he skis NY a lot. I don't have real numbers, but I've read a bunch of his TRs and they are primarily NY and VT.  He often posts about smaller vert spots like Snow Ridge, and I've also seen his reports from the VT BC. They all seem to have one thing in common - powder. This led to my own interpretation - he values powder.

The only forum I've seen his posts on is FTO.  Not sure if you were referencing FTO when you mentioned dead or flamer forums.  I wouldn't put FTO in either category.

I don't know skimore, but I do think his posts have been valuable and I hope he continues to post. To answer your question - I don't want a forum that is dead or populated by flamers.  I'd like a forum with a strong signal-to-noise ratio, and a minimum of flaming.  That would make it worth the effort.

Back on topic.  Great job Mike!  No natural snow and yet good (not great) skiing this year.  

Enough trolls.  Really.  

Whiteface v. Gore v. Vermont?  Who gives a sh#@?  Tree huggers versus Fossil fuel lovers.  Again, who gives a sh#@?  

Let's stay on topic and keep this site the fun, informative, and useful site that it has been for years.  

Skimore:  You ever ski in Clinton County?

Harvey44 wrote

If skimore said all VT areas are better than NY areas, I disagree.

Yes, that essentially seems to be his gist:

skimore wrote

Noah John wrote

<  Like I said, IMO Gore is better than nearly every mountain in Vermont.   The exceptions are  MRG, SB, Stowe and Jay.  Maybe Smuggs.

Nearly every and you rattle off 1/3 of VT. Looks like the same list that trump WF

Harvey44 wrote

Not sure if you were referencing FTO when you mentioned dead or flamer forums.  I wouldn't put FTO in either category.

Yes I am referencing the dead SkiADK forum, the relatively dead First Tracks Online Eastern forum, and the very much alive but full of flamers Alpine Zone forum.  SkiADK and FTO East were once very active forums, not long ago.  Their downfall was, among other things, just this sort of personal infighting.  Just ask HPD.  Of course you don't have to, you know since you were an active participant in those forums yourself.  And of course HPD hasn't been heard from here for some time now  either.

Hey, Skimore's not all that bad, he just happened to strike me as arrogant.  I guess I'm willing to let Noah John's explanation stand:

Noah John wrote

 Because all he hears in here is how awesome NY skiing is and it's a tiresome circle jerk

There once was a ski forum named Alpine Zone.............

I'll go back to being an observer now and let you all get back to College Hoops, NBA, Whitney Houston and your private gondola conversations.