Advice for a Slides First Timer

It is on my bucket list to ski the slides at Whiteface.  I can ski every trail at Hunter or any other mountain I have been to for that matter in just about every condition (as long as it is good enough to be open).  I don't have much glade experience except when I ventured in to some trees at Gore on a couple trips.  From my impression, The Slides are about as steep as your typical Hunter West Side double black, but are natural terrain with some trees.  I have seen videos and from that, it looks like I could ski it comfortably from those.

I know that patrol requires avy gear on many occasions.  If it is required, is it recommended that a first timer ski it, or wait until it is open unrestricted?  They also sometimes restrict group size.  I would ski with my dad on whatever day I do The Slides.  If they are requiring 3 in a group, could we group up with some other people to go in?  How hard is the hike to get to them?  I already know that you are supposed to sidestep up, not walk up.  What is the reason for this?  I have also read on this site that it is recommended to ski Empire, and Cloudsplitter Glades first to make sure that you are ready.  Are these trails the correct warm up ones?

I am looking forward to eventually skiing the Whiteface Slides provided that I know I am ready and prepared.  If anyone has any additional advice to a Slides first timer, please post it.

Some good advice for first time Slide skiers here, written by those who know:

http://nyskiblog.com/whiteface-slides/

And a good resources for NY steepness here:

http://ski-degrees.synthasite.com/new-york.php

I'll keep my controversial opinions about difficulty to myself.  

You are taking the right first steps in doing your homework.  You've been to Gore, and I'll assume you skied Rumor and Lies.  If you can confidently ski those, and K27 and the West side at Hunter you possess the skills to ski the Slides in good conditions.  That said, the Slides are not like any of those trails.  In the Slides you will face not only steeps, but exposed rock and ice, cliffs, tight trees, and if Silver status (I wouldn't let that keep a first timer out if you have the gear) powder.  So you have to be ready and able to deal with all of those things, at any time, because depending on what Slide you take, or which turns you take on a particular Slide, you may encounter them all.  When they were open this year the Slides had very good coverage.  Even so, when I was out there last month I traversed right off Slide 2 towards the falls on Slide 1, and my only exit was straight lining some 20 feet down the fall line over frozen water falls.  The last day they were open they shut down early as a guy found himself facing mandatory air off the nose in Slide 2B and didn't handle the landing well....and it took Patrol several hours to sled him out with a broken collar bone I believe.  So even with good conditions that is what you have to be prepared to face.

The Slide Guide Harvey pointed you to is a great resource on what specific Slides present.

Yeah, I'd say you'd want to do skier's left side of Rumor before tackling the slides. It's steeper than anything at Huntah. Glade skiing isn't really the same thing. We're talking open, steep, exposed pitches.

Just get your dad to take you to Tuckerman Ravine this year. If you can do that, the slides will be no problem for you.

Two reasons for having to sidestep up

If you can't do it you most likely can't ski down.  Experienced instructors or patrollers can watch a person side step and have a pretty good idea on how you can ski.  Skidds (aka JTG) was my partner when a group ahead of us was having issues side stepping up and sure enough they had a very rough time skiing down.

The other reason is post holes make the route in harder for every one else.

Comparing anything at Hunter to the slides are fighting words around these parts.  

There is nothing in bounds in the east they you can compare to the slides.  They will be the most difficult thing you have ever skied since you have not been out west.  Given that the conditions are more variable than western conditions it's more difficult than most western double black chute skiing IMO.

....and Coach knows what he's talking about.  He's been around.  

I've only skied a couple of western chutes, the Lake Chutes at Breck (when you had to earn the turns, and the hike up was scarier than skiing down) and North Pole Chute on the East Wall at A Basin.  In my limited experience I agree, the exposed rock, ice, and trees in the Slides make them a different animal, and technically more difficult.  I think a fall on most western chutes might have more repercussions than a fall in the Slides though, but there are often less obstacles to trip you up.  That said, I'm sure there are a few scary chutes that will make you crap your pants out west, where I'm not sure the Slides are going to dirty anyone's underwear.

As for the groups of three or more thing, don't sweat that.  Skiing is a pretty social pursuit, and you can make some friends and group up at the entrance.

Coach, I think everyone knows it would be foolish to compare anything on map at Hunter, Gore or just about any Eastern mountain, to the Slides.  The Slides are an entirely different ball game, although I suspect things like the Tram Line at Jay and Lift Line at Smuggs (never been on either) might enter the discussion for being in the same ball park.  I certainly didn't intend to compare Rumor, Lies or K27 to the Slides.  That said, wouldn't you agree that someone who can ski those trails confidently (and I mean SKI them, not just get down them) is likely to be an advanced enough skier that they stand a reasonable chance (no trip into the Slides is without risk, even for accomplished skiers) of navigating the Slides successfully?  I've said it before, but I think everyone really should ski Cloudsplitter Glades before they attempt the Slides, as that is a better on map test of skills than any wide open, steep, bumped up trail.  Cloudsplitter will test your ability to navigate tight spaces with obstacles on steep terrain.

Yes CC glades and empire require you to ski one narrow line that is similair to the slides.  Given the width you can't shop for turns.

Certainly Jackson and Snowbird have steeper chutes but their snow is much more consistent.  A good part of the slides you are skiing on waterfall ice and rock covered in ice.  Out west the snow is much better.

The stuff under the tram at Jay is close to the slides I'd say but much shorter

OK I lied about keeping it to myself.

It's all about conditions and controlling your speed. Personally I'm way more intimidated facing boilerplate manmade snow on the Rumor headwall than anything I've skied in the slides. I've done GS turns on Rumor getting down in a minute and I've taken 10 mins to get down on bulletproof bumps. It's not about pitch as much as snow quality. I'll take natural snow and thin cover over frozed manmade every time.

Yea I've only been in the Slides a few days and one was in 2011.  Each time I skied it there was ice in the waterfall in Slide 1.  One time I straight-lined it, and another time I went around it.

The last time I was there there was a lot of exposed rock. I did some side stepping and improvising. Maybe that's cheating but it wasn't out of this world difficult.

I'm sure I'm getting down slower than you guys, but one turn at a time, bump by bump in natural snow is my opinion easier than negotiating frozen cord on Sky or any black.

Like Coach said in the Slide Guide, the key is making controlled turns in a tight space.  There are several places where there is only one line, like the bottom of 4(?).

Take your time, control your speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMuUP7FQ9vg&sns=em



Drifting a little off topic here, and what you say about the Slides is spot on.  Regarding western chute skiing though, sometimes the better snow conditions can't mitigate the oh shit factor.  I got a kick this video when I found it because it is one of the few Western extreme chute skiing areas I have done and can identify with.  Yes, the snow conditions are very good, and many would be right in saying this guy just needed to grow a pair, initiate a turn (hell, use a jump turn if you gotta, sayeth JTG!), and ski the damn thing.  However, discretion is the better part of valor, as they say.  What is notable about this video, and you can see it from above and better late when the patroller comes in, is the rock band halfway down the chute.  This guy chose to drop in the Crazy Ivan line, which I think is the toughest line in the Lake Chutes.  Maybe it's Zoot Chute, which is just a tough.  But here the guy has dropped in on a no fall zone.  You fall above those rocks and you probably have a better chance of dying than you do of just busting your ass.  Sure, the chances of an expert skier falling there might be lower because other than the steepness (55 to 60 degree pitch) there isn't a lot to trip you up, but still......I haven't come across many 'you fall and you die' spots in my half dozen forays into Slides 1-4.  Fall and you are in a heck of a lot of trouble and pain yes, but not as much trouble as this guy would have been in if he lost it.

If you're ever at Smuggs, Sallies Alley to Liftline IMO would be the closest to skiing the Slides at WF.....give er a shot young lad

This guy is not the brightest star in the universe

Skiing that by yourself is beyond stupid.  The weather seemed pretty crappy too.

As soon as he sat on his side to slip the cornice you could see he was way over his head and could have went up

I doubt our patrollers would have been so nice is having to repell someone off a spot in slide one

That's the problem with the Imperial Express SuperQuad.  When my bother and I hit the Lake Chutes it was via a 45 minute high altitude climb up a knife edge spine.  You had plenty of time to understand exactly what you were getting yourself into.  Now any yahoo on skis can get there, and obviously more than a few get themselves in trouble.

It would be interesting to climb up the Slides.  Shared a lift ride last Friday with a guy who has done it.    That's some pretty hairy terrain, and every time I see it from a distance without snow it seems insane that it could be skiable.

Go in the first time with someone who knows their way around...that is all. Some people over think things...just ski.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Go in the first time with someone who knows their way around...that is all. Some people over think things...just ski.

HPD, always the voice of reason!  

May not always be that easy to hook up with someone who knows their way around.  Of course I pro'lly don't get the best response to my 'I'm going to be there if anyone wants to take a few runs' queries, being the jump turn happy douchenozzel that I am. .  More people than not probably first time it without someone to guide them, so I would say a friendly guide is more nicety than necessity.  STFU and ski is decent advice, but I have no problem erring on the side of caution and telling someone a bunch of shit that probably won't turn out to be all that useful when they get in there.....but you never know.  That, and a thread like this is mostly a discussion vehicle for a bored board anyway.

Coach Z wrote

This guy is not the brightest star in the universe

That is the understatement of the year Coach. I just don't understand what he was thinking.

Skidds wrote

May not always be that easy to hook up with someone who knows their way around.

Go to customer service and tell them you'd like someone to give you a tour of the slides.

Coach Z wrote

They will be the most difficult thing you have ever skied.

That is why I want to ski them as long as I know I can do it safely.  How many people (apart from the people on this site) can say that they have skied the hardest in bounds terrain in the east?

Another question.  How can sidestepping up measure your ability level to ski down.  I am not in good physical condition and I get out of breath on every one of Gore's traverses, but I can ski very well.  I just don't see how going down could be harder than going up.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Skidds wrote

May not always be that easy to hook up with someone who knows their way around.

Go to customer service and tell them you'd like someone to give you a tour of the slides.

Didn't realize you could do that.  Very good advice!  Thanks.