Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

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Jamesdeluxe Jamesdeluxe
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Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

What does everyone think about the ongoing rumors that Belleayre will be added to ORDA, which means that there would be a season-pass covering all three state-owned mountains? I would be for it, but I could imagine that opinions in the ADKs would split depending on people's relationships to the mountains.

Lodging, restaurants, and other ancillary businesses would welcome it, I'd assume, since there'd be more destination visitors each winter.  This would correspond to the reason NYS got into the ski business in the first place: to provide economic stimulus to struggling rural regions.

However, I'd bet that the people who manage Gore and Whiteface (as well as passholders at those mountains) might not be happy to receive more skier visits with no additional revenue attached to them.  Of course, one could argue that they can't have it both ways, as most of the state's tax revenues (the money that funds those two mountains) comes from the downstate region, i.e. Belleayre's audience.  
Highpeaksdrifter Highpeaksdrifter
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

It seems to me that this "All-NYstate owned" pass idea comes up every year in different forums.
I dispute the idea that more Bell passholders would come north for extended stays. That may or may not happen, no one knows. Also, there is no political will to combine the 3. Has anyone ever read about any state official, mountain management, etc. say they would like to see this happen?

Back when all three ski areas were under DEC management, a Gore/Whiteface pass could be used at Belleayre, and vice versa.

Back then Gore and WF where run down to crap too. They have both thrived since ORDA.

I for one would not want to see it happen. I think Bell would be a drain of $ away from WF/Gore.
There's truth that lives
And truth that dies
I don't know which
So never mind - Leonard Cohen
x10003q x10003q
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

If I ski at Belle, there is no way I want ORDA in my pockets. They crap on Gore on a regular basis. The ORDA board of directors is mostly filled with Lake Placid centric members. Most of the venues in and around LP do not  support themselves. They do help fill the huge properties owned by ORDA board members Serge Lussi (LP attorney and owner Crowne Plaza Resort), and Ed Wiebrecht (Mirror Lake Inn, father of Andrew). Pat Barrett is a LP attorney. Cliff Donaldson is the former Essex County Manger (LP is in Essex County). Jerry Stack ownes the Central Garage in LP and is  long time North Elba town councilman.  Robert Flacke seems to be the only Warren County rep and he ownes the Fort William Henry Resort in Lake George (more competition for North Creek). ORDA has plowed millions of $ into the new convention center in LP at a time when the convention business is taking huge losses due to the economy. They are tasked with running the winter sports venues. I wonder what winter sports will be taking place in the convention center.

Last year the ORDA BoD delayed the NC Ski Bowl interconnect in an effort to try to shake down Front Street (they own the land next to the NC ski bowl). Lussi was angry that this "new" chair lift was going to increase the value of the Front Street property and they should contribute. It was sad watching Mike Pratt trying to explain that this was not a good idea. Some residents from NC went to the next meeting and nothing became of this nonsense other than to delay the work on the interconnect for a couple of months.

This interconnect has been on various plans since I started skiing at Gore in 1985. Why did it take 20 plus years to happen? Maybe because the ORDA Board does not want any competition from Gore for overnight skiers. The largest property in NC is the Copperfield Inn. It has a whole 31 rooms. It went out of business and was recently resurected. Lussi's Crowne Plaza has 246 rooms. LP has 5000 plus rooms and NC might have only 500. As long as Gore remained basically a day area for the greater Albany metro region, the ORDA board was happy. If Gore/NC ever became what it could be, LP would take a hit on the overnight skiers. Gore is closer and easier to drive to than WF, Gore has more sliable acres than WF, it has better blue terrain, it handles a crowd better than WF (IMHO), and it is warmer and less exposed and windy than WF.

If Belleayre was under ORDA it would just end up supporting LP like Gore does. ORDA has minimal interest in Gore and Gore is only about an hour away. They would have even less interest in Belle. Belle is doing well right now, no need to rock the boat.

Snowballs Snowballs
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

X2^^^. That was exactly my first thoughts. Many here are ORDA/LP centric and they got huffy when people complained about ORDA and the completely lousy snowmaking job Gore did last year. If they had to put up with that at Whiteface they'ld no doubt be screaming bloody murder.

Gore can't get proper snowmaking, yet ORDA spends 25 million plus on the Convention Center! WTH! For years, even before the economy went sour, there's been a huge over abundance of Convention Center space nationwide. Lots of it goes way under booked. The Convention Center in Lake Placid will go unused for years and the Gore budget will suffer.

Gore gets more customers than Face and yet they get short changed by ORDA. I saw the ORDA meeting were Pratt had to go hat in hand and practically beg for them to complete a project that THE STATE PAID FOR! and ORDA had already started. It was freegin embarassing. He was emasculated. They were going to delay it's completion for at least a year maybe more!

I don't see  Lussi or Weibrecht doing what they themselves were demanding from Front Street. Those very two people tried to extort money from Front Street! Sooooooo.....Where's Lussi's and Wiebrecht's financial contribution to ORDA? They directly benefit financially from ORDA, where's their check to pay back this blessing? Hmmm? How about they pay for Hoyt's snowmaking or making an ongoing yearly financial contribution to ORDA just like they were trying to extort from Front Street.

ORDA would further bleed Bellayre to support Placid. Someday, ORDA will be audited.
Darkside Shaman Darkside Shaman
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

The state should not be in the ski business, period!
Gotta go to know
Benny Profane Benny Profane
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

In reply to this post by Jamesdeluxe
"Gore/WF would get more people from the NYC region spending money in the Adirondacks with their season passes, skiers would have more options and value from their passes."

I'm not quite clear as to how adding Belleayre to the mix would accomplish this. I'm a downstater, and hardly see any promotions for Gore or Whiteface down here. I mention Gore to avid and not so avid skiers, and get a blank look 90% of the time. "Oh yeah, I've .....heard... of that place. .............Um, hey, how 'bout those Yankees!" Heck, I never skied there until I moved to Saratoga Springs for a few years recently. Actually, selfish me, that's the way I'd like it to stay. It's my Saturday mountain.
funny like a clown
Jamesdeluxe Jamesdeluxe
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

Benny Profane wrote
I'm not quite clear as to how adding Belleayre to the mix would accomplish this. I'm a downstater, and hardly see any promotions for Gore or Whiteface down here.
I agree about the lack of Gore/WF marketing south of Albany, but are you telling me that if Belleayre passholders could ski the ADKs without paying for lift tickets, that they'd still go to the southern/central VT usual suspects for a destination ski trip that doesn't involve taking a plane?

Given most people's money issues these days, you don't think that it'd be a no-brainer to go to Gore or WF?
Benny Profane Benny Profane
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

No. Most people who ski aren't in it for the skiing. They are in it for the party. Sorry, the bar at Gore is cool, but North Creek is nothing. Lake Placid is better, of course, but can't compete with the access road at Killington, among others.

Of course, the real party people stop at Hunter. My manager, who's kind of young (younger than me), tells me about spending three or four seasons there in a house, and he doesn't ski. At all.
funny like a clown
Highpeaksdrifter Highpeaksdrifter
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

Benny you way off dude. The party Hunter is no more and has been that way for some time. Hardly any bars left, same for Tannersville. DMC of Alpinezone fame has been reporting this for years. He lives there and is Mr. Hunter.
I grew up skiing at Hunter, back in the day it was nuts, but not now.
There's truth that lives
And truth that dies
I don't know which
So never mind - Leonard Cohen
Benny Profane Benny Profane
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Re: Belleayre, Whiteface & Gore: Together Under ORDA?

Well, whatdoIknow?  I ski Hunter once every two or three years as a goof. But, it's more party than North Creek. Any place is.

 Furgetaboutit. Huntah rules.
funny like a clown
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