Best Colleges for Skiing?

All work no play is not a good thing.  I'll stay away from those places for sure.  I'm not really competitive and I have zero interest in spending 4 years working 12 hours a day 7 days a week.

I also don't think it's crucial he wakes up in a hurry. He'll make choices, try stuff and adjust as necessary.  I certainly didn't wake up too fast. I may not be awake yet.  Money was never my ultimate goal, if it is yours, YMMV.

Big takeaways:

Money isn't everything
Balance is key
Know your strengths and weaknesses
Manage your time wisely
Make sure you are doing what you want in terms of your talent and passions

If you get all that right in 4 years right out of high school, you're a better person than me.  Took me two tries with an extended break in between.

Don't worry about school - if you have a natural knack for engineering, it will be easy.  Might not click right away, so don't get discouraged, but if you are sitting in class junior year having to work really hard to keep up and things aren't making sense to you, change majors!  They try to wee you out in the beginning, but sometimes it's too early to tell.

From what I read about the way you write and think, I don't think you'll have a hard time with it.

I like to debate, but I'd be a terrible lawyer.  Know your strengths and weakness.

MikeK wrote

Don't worry about school - if you have a natural knack for engineering, it will be easy.  

I'm pretty sure I've got it.  They definitely try to weed people out in the beginning.  Lots of people trying to get into that field for the money, but some just aren't fit for it.

MikeK wrote

I think you are exaggerating this a bit.

Nope - not a bit.

MikeK wrote

Also one thing you'll find out... some of these kids from other countries may be good at math, but not all of them are good at APPLYING math.  Big difference.

Math is a tool just as a wrench or a screwdriver.  Just because you know how to turn a wrench doesn't mean you can design or fix an engine.

And this from someone who has never been through a real engineering program. Just see how well this works in that EM course, thermodynamics, applied math, partial DEQ or Modern theoretical physics etc. classes. If you can't handle the math your toast, if you can't handle it with ease you will struggle, you may pass but you will be in the middle of the pack. I work with several professors at RPI, Cornell and give the occasional lecture at some of the Boston colleges - I get the same from all the profs - they have to spend a lot of time teaching math to a lot of the US students in Engineering. You have to get the degree before you can get the job. Granted, in most cases you don't need all the math to do many engineering jobs but if you want the top design or research jobs you do use it.

snoloco wrote

All work no play is not a good thing.  I'll stay away from those places for sure.  I'm not really competitive and I have zero interest in spending 4 years working 12 hours a day 7 days a week.

I understand your desire for balance and that is a good thing.  It is just not compatible with some schools like MIT and the other top 5-10 engineering schools.

Just reading this thread gives me anxiety.

Coach Z wrote

snoloco wrote

All work no play is not a good thing.  I'll stay away from those places for sure.  I'm not really competitive and I have zero interest in spending 4 years working 12 hours a day 7 days a week.

I understand your desire for balance and that is a good thing.  It is just not compatible with some schools like MIT and the other top 5-10 engineering schools.

It's not about where you go to college, but what you do in college.  The feeling I got about the vibe at Clarkson is that it's "work hard, play hard".  You put a lot of time into your academics and do well, but you also make sure you have the time to enjoy yourself and do other things.  For me in the winter, skiing is my main activity, and I'll find time to do it, while continuing to succeed academically.  I'm sure that isn't very true at MIT, so that would be something to consider before going there or any similar school.  In all likelyhood, I'll stay at Clarkson after my Clarkson School year, but I have the option to transfer, and I might fill out some applications to see where I'll get in.

I'm grateful that I was able to find a way to fit in (lol barely) with a crappy BA.

PeeTex wrote

And this from someone who has never been through a real engineering program. Just see how well this works in that EM course, thermodynamics, applied math, partial DEQ or Modern theoretical physics etc. classes. If you can't handle the math your toast, if you can't handle it with ease you will struggle, you may pass but you will be in the middle of the pack. I work with several professors at RPI, Cornell and give the occasional lecture at some of the Boston colleges - I get the same from all the profs - they have to spend a lot of time teaching math to a lot of the US students in Engineering. You have to get the degree before you can get the job. Granted, in most cases you don't need all the math to do many engineering jobs but if you want the top design or research jobs you do use it.

What are you talking about?  I graduated top of my class from an ABET accredited school in Mechanical Engineering.  I work in R&D and do everything from modeling, to design, to test.

Yes math is very important.  Knowing how to apply math is WAY more important.  I've seen tons of people who are really good at the mechanics of doing math, but have no idea how to solve a problem with it.  Lots of juniors and seniors I went to school with barely could.  They probably had high C, low B averages though and probably work in sales, application or are product bitches.

Diff EQ, partial diff EQ and boundary value problems are not that difficult.  It's not that high level math to be honest.  You'll do Fourier transforms in your sleep and Laplace transforms at the blink of an eye.  Honestly if you graduated with a BS in ME and don't understand Laplace transforms you should hand your degree back.  Hardest part about any of that is partial fraction decomposition and you never really need to do that in real life because any real job is going give you computational power out the ass.  Yeah you'll do and should understand it, but it's tedium.

Biggest focus for a real, practicing engineer these days is to understand numerical methods.  Taylor series, finite element, finite difference, numerical integration and derivatives.  Almost always are you working with data and not ideal functions.  And I have more computational power in this shitty laptop I'm typing on that any engineer had 30-40 years ago.

I also think understanding test is huge.  Everyone takes it for granted.  Test is everything.  Your models are worthless if you can't verify them in the real world.  If you can't make good measurements that are precise, reliable and repeatable, you might as well just toss darts.

All research engineering and product development stands strong on modeling and test.  Creativity to come up with new ideas is the other thing.  The rest is execution via process and manufacturing engineering.

MikeK, where did you go to school?

MikeK wrote

What are you talking about?  I graduated top of my class from an ABET accredited school in Mechanical Engineering.  I work in R&D and do everything from modeling, to design, to test.

Sorry - I thought you went through a technology program. So you do understand just how important having strength in math as you described in your reply. You seem to be in 100% agreement with me on this. You may or may not use it after you graduate but you definitely need it to get through the program.

snoloco wrote

MikeK, where did you go to school?

RIT

I took my first two years at a CC though and transferred.  Had pretty equal scholarships to Clarkson and I think RPI.  I was able to save more money by living in Rochester though because of family.  Also co-op was good for making money and getting experience, which at RIT you need to do to graduate.

I was lucky to graduate debt free.  CC helped me there.  Also living with family.  It wasn't ideal but I grunted it out to save money.

Like I said though, I didn't go right out of HS.  Had no idea then really.  I started engineering school when I was 22 and most of my friends at the time had already graduated college or had been working (discouraging).  I went to PSC for a year out of HS, realized I wasn't on the right path, left and worked as a mechanic until I figured out what I was going to do.  Engineering was it, I just didn't know in HS.

Anyway my senior year I was looking at going to Cornell or MIT for grad school.  I also had some offers for some other things that sound kind of prestigious, but weren't up my alley - one was with NASA.  I never even wound up applying because I got a co-op where I work now, and they asked me to stay.  I finished my last few classes one at a time at night and they hired me full time when I finished those.  I never even wound up applying to grad schools, but given my grades I'm sure I would have not had an issue with either of my choices.  It just so worked out I got into a good full time hire job before I even graduated, and the money was nice... I evaluated whether or not I wanted to eat Ramen for another 2 to 4 years for a MS or PhD and decided not to.  That was my initial plan though and why I kept my grades high.  I remember buying my first high end electric guitar... oh man... that was sweet...

Turns out where I work there was no incentive to get an advanced degree (no increase in pay or anything) once you'd been hired, so I decided against it.  Had I been hired in with a MS or PhD I would have started off making more.  A lot of places are like that I'm told.  At some point though, when you gain enough experience having the masters does little.  A PhD is still much different, but in some places, honestly, they'll cut them out.  It's strange but working level PhDs are often the first to jump ship or get cut out.  PhDs in management hang on much better.

A PhD in industry can be a blessing or a curse.  Some guys are running departments as tech leads, others are working in management as chief scientist or engineers.  A friend of mine who has a PhD not only manages a group of analysts but he also teaches as an adjunct and does consulting on the side.  He rakes in a lot of money.  But he works a lot.

My buddy's  kid graduated from RIT with a Meche degree..He does very well..Good School!!!

My daughter graduates next month from Cornell..They really want her to stay , but she wants a change from Ithaca...

Did you go to CC when you were 22 or did you transfer when you were 22?

Being an only child, I may be able to graduate without debt.  Got a very good deal at Clarkson, much more than I anticipated earlier.

And how many years did it take you to complete your degree in total? (including CC)

I am currentlyt at a tech school, and am seriously considering an engineering degree in the near future. Nobody in industry has anything nice to say about a Technology degree, and honestly, if I really wanted to, I could teach the material to myself. It's not hard stuff. I could never teach myself to be an engineer, and now is the best point in my life to do it.  The math and Physics classes I'm taking are certainly going to be helpful though. It will take 5 years in total though which isn't really such a bad thing, it just means more tuition costs.

I started CC at 22.  I was hired as a co-op (full time, but not full engineers pay) at 26.  Got my degree at 27 and went to full time, full pay.

Typically RIT is 5 years for a BS because of co-ops.  I had some credits from PSC like english and bio that I was able to transfer though, and my last year while working full time I took some stuff I missed like phys ed and liberal arts minor junk.  I kind of did it a bit jumbled.

I know a lot of people who did the CC route and it was clean and they saved a lot of money.  Also they did like I did and pretty much paid their tuition with their co-op work money.  Last 3 years at RIT you alternate between classes and working.  And with the transfer scholarships, it was achievable to make enough to pay the bills.

Hey Ethan.  I'd encourage you to get the engineering degree.  Nothing against tech degrees but a lot of what see is those people get shafted.  Most work contract and have a hard time getting full time hire.  You can't work as an engineer with a tech degree but you can work as a technician with an engineering degree (not that you really want to, but it gives you more options).

A lot of people struggle in engineering programs due to the theory.  I think the problem is they can't relate it to anything practical.  When you are learning this stuff, make an extra effort to pick things out and think about them in the ideal, mathematical way.  It may seem silly at first but eventually you learn to how to simplify and idealize systems in a way that you can manipulate on a piece of paper or in your head (more on a computer these days).  That's really the key to modelling IMO.  Figuring out what is important, how to represent it in mathematical terms and then how to solve it.  Solving becomes the easy part in industry as there are so many powerful tools to do that.  In school they will teach you the long way.  They'll also expose you to the other stuff too.  But you have to understand what you are doing to be able to use those other tools.  They don't engineer anything for you, they just help you get to the answers you are looking for quicker.

Another good skill that engineering should teach you is problem solving or trouble shooting using more or less the scientific method.  It seems obvious and you should be able to teach yourself this but you need a lot of background knowledge to make it work.  Simply though, it involves coming up with hypothesis on what your problem may be or how to solve it, and then verifying your ideas.  Sometimes you verify using simulations, other times building prototypes and testing.  Usually it's both but it depends on how big the problem is.  It could be the entire project you are working on or rooting out a bad part from something you had made by an outside source.  The important part is verifying and understanding the problem.  But also knowing which ones to chase.  You can't chase down and analyze and test every little thing, you'd never get anything done.  So then there is experience and risk assessment.  All that though relies on a good knowledge of the physics though.  That's how you formulate ideas.  As I see it, you can never understand that enough (and trust me, you never will... even after all the schooling or experience in the world!).

Any hey one more thing, Sno and Snow.  If you can float a few bucks for this summer, buy these two books and read them the best you can:

http://www.amazon.com/Modeling-Engineering-Systems-PC-Based-Techniques/dp/1878707086

http://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Engineering-Design-McGraw-Hill/dp/0072520361

If you are planning on getting into mechanical or electro-mechanical engineering, or mechatronics, both are really, really core (I don't mean hardcore, I mean fundamental) texts.

The first one is easier to read but has a lot of calculus.  The second is a text book, one that is not really that old but is an updated edition of a very, very fundamental mech eng text.  If you take a curriculum in ME, you'll take two classes that cover these subjects - one called System Dynamics (or something similar) and another called Machine Design (or something similar).

If you can read through them now you'll have an idea of where you are headed.  Then re-read them when you graduate and you'll see what I mean.

The Mech Eng Design book is probably one of the books I reference the most.  It's very basic in its coverage of machine elements (there are libraries of books written what is covered in each chapter), but it is a good quick reference to get you started.

I will definitely consider it!

MikeK wrote

If you are planning on getting into mechanical or electro-mechanical engineering, or mechatronics, both are really, really core (I don't mean hardcore, I mean fundamental) texts.

I am currently in a Mechatronics program. I am just finishing up my first year.  But it is not an engineering program, it is an AAS/BT.(2+2) That's why I am considering transferring after next year.
I wonder if there are any Mechatronics Engineering programs, or are all Mechatronic programs Technology programs?