Different Rules for Pro Athletes

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

It starts in HS.  It's all the same.  Athletes getting fake grades to keep eligible.  

WTF??? Where the hell did you go to HS

I know things have changed since I played highschool and college sports, but that certainly sounds like doom and gloom to me.

Thinking that doesn't happen sounds like you're doing a lot of this:

Snowballs wrote

MikeK wrote

 Life's not fair.  The sooner you realize that, the less this will bother you.

No. Injustice will always bothers me. It should bother everybody.

Injustice always bothers people in the warm and fuzzy feel good corner of their mind.  But very rarely when it comes to acting out on it, do they...

Do you watch pro sports?

Do you think the person that assembled the computer you're typing on was paid a fair wage?

Maybe injustice doesn't bother you as much as you think...

All the ones you know?? What is that, are they animals. His point was that abuse it horrible and it sucks that it takes an incident like this to bring it to the forefront .

Mikey must have his head in the sand

I don't get the "wife not pressing charges" thing.  They have a crime on tape.

If I punch the president in the face and it's on TV and he doesn't press charges am I good to go?

Nobody really gives a shit.  TMZ, NFL, Ray, nobody. I saw one news anchor say something like "the lesson is next time take the stairs."

MikeK wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

He was treated under the law like any other first-time offender.  Women get beaten every day. ..where is the public outrage for them?  Oh yeah...celebrity.

I dare you to say that at a lesbian rally.  People get big balls behind a computer screen.

There is public outrage everyday for physical abuse against women.  You just choose to ignore it... probably too busy watching football

Not sure how you got me so wrong, but let me try again. In first time domestic abuse cases, where the victim doesn't press charges, the offender typically gets probation and is required to take anger management classes. I'm not saying that is just and enough punishment, all I'm saying is that's what Ray Rice would have gotten whether he was a pro football player or a pro dish washer. That's the first part of my post.

Let me qualify the second part. I was a teacher for 30+ years. For 15 of those years I worked as a GED preparation instructor. A lot of those kids came from tough domestic situations. I called child protective services many times on their behave and tried to help my students any why I could. That said, Ray Rice's case is getting all kinds of public outrage because he is famous. My students and people like them are not famous, and the same kind of intense outrage and publicity isn't there for them.

If that doesn't satisfy you Mike then you can go f#@k yourself.

tjf1967 wrote

All the ones you know?? What is that, are they animals. His point was that abuse it horrible and it sucks that it takes an incident like this to bring it to the forefront .

That's it,you said it better then me.

Harvey wrote

I don't get the "wife not pressing charges" thing.  They have a crime on tape.

If I punch the president in the face and it's on TV and he doesn't press charges am I good to go?

Nobody really gives a shit.  TMZ, NFL, Ray, nobody. I saw one news anchor say something like "the lesson is next time take the stairs."

The President (and others, police, firemen, AMTs) get special treatment when it comes to assault.
You could classify the punch as simple assault.
Simple assault in NJ
Here is the penalty from the link:
"Simple assault is categorized as a disorderly persons offense, unless the injury occurred as a result of a consensual fight or scuffle, in which case it is a petty disorderly persons offense. A defendant convicted of simple assault can be fined or ordered to make restitution, or both. The fine cannot exceed $1,000 in the case of a conviction for a disorderly persons offense, or $500 for a petty disorderly persons conviction. A judge can, however, order a higher fine not to exceed double the amount of loss suffered by the victim."

While the video is incredibly violent, the law is well defined on the subject. Rice is a complete ahole. But as a first time offender he gets to enter a program for first time offenders. I would think these programs work or they would not exist. Hopefully he learns and this never happens again. If that is the case then the program worked. If it doesn't work he will face severe penalties.

MikeK wrote

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

It starts in HS.  It's all the same.  Athletes getting fake grades to keep eligible.  

WTF??? Where the hell did you go to HS

I know things have changed since I played highschool and college sports, but that certainly sounds like doom and gloom to me.

Thinking that doesn't happen sounds like you're doing a lot of this:

Not sure why I even bother, pretty bored at work today I guess.

HS sports are fantastic, life learning lessons if you will. I wouldn't trade my experiences on a team for anything, that goes for HS and college. I'm sure there are some student athelets at the HS level that may get a pass thru, yes, that happens, but certainly not on a regular basis.

Curious, did you play HS sports??? Maybe you got cut and you're just full of hate for those who had what it takes

tjf1967 wrote

All the ones you know?? What is that, are they animals. His point was that abuse it horrible and it sucks that it takes an incident like this to bring it to the forefront .

He's a hater TJ, simple as that

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

It starts in HS.  It's all the same.  Athletes getting fake grades to keep eligible.  

WTF??? Where the hell did you go to HS

I know things have changed since I played highschool and college sports, but that certainly sounds like doom and gloom to me.

Thinking that doesn't happen sounds like you're doing a lot of this:

Not sure why I even bother, pretty bored at work today I guess.

HS sports are fantastic, life learning lessons if you will. I wouldn't trade my experiences on a team for anything, that goes for HS and college. I'm sure there are some student athelets at the HS level that may get a pass thru, yes, that happens, but certainly not on a regular basis.

Curious, did you play HS sports??? Maybe you got cut and you're just full of hate for those who had what it takes

Well said Camp. High school sports are the closest thing to job prep in the HS. They teach work habits that can last a lifetime. The high school I attended routinely suspended athletes for academic and team code violations. The same was true for my son's high school. For some kids, HS sports is the only reason they study and show up at school.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

MikeK wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

He was treated under the law like any other first-time offender.  Women get beaten every day. ..where is the public outrage for them?  Oh yeah...celebrity.

I dare you to say that at a lesbian rally.  People get big balls behind a computer screen.

There is public outrage everyday for physical abuse against women.  You just choose to ignore it... probably too busy watching football

Not sure how you got me so wrong, but let me try again. In first time domestic abuse cases, where the victim doesn't press charges, the offender typically gets probation and is required to take anger management classes. I'm not saying that is just and enough punishment, all I'm saying is that's what Ray Rice would have gotten whether he was a pro football player or a pro dish washer. That's the first part of my post.

Let me qualify the second part. I was a teacher for 30+ years. For 15 of those years I worked as a GED preparation instructor. A lot of those kids came from tough domestic situations. I called child protective services many times on their behave and tried to help my students any why I could. That said, Ray Rice's case is getting all kinds of public outrage because he is famous. My students and people like them are not famous, and the same kind of intense outrage and publicity isn't there for them.

If that doesn't satisfy you Mike then you can go f#@k yourself.

Nice end.  In return:

I grew up with what you talk about first hand, so fuck yourself.  Just because you were an insulated teacher you think you know about spousal abuse?  You knew all about those poor GED kids in their 'tough' situations.

And no matter what you think you said, you clearly stated that women get beat everyday and no one gives a fuck.  They only care when it's a celeb, which is clearly everyone posting on this thread.  Some people care even when it doesn't involve some millionaire asshole in tights.  So if that's what you meant to say, then maybe you need to open up to everyone here who the assholes are?

Maybe you need to post a disclaimer with your comments and stop speaking for those who do care about this type of shit because they saw their old man put their mom in the hospital routinely growing up - or they just care about womens rights.  Maybe those people might see your comment as the asinine bullshit that it is.  I'm glad you have a nice support group here to back your inane rant up.

MikeK wrote

Nice end.  In return:

I grew up with what you talk about first hand, so fuck yourself.  Just because you were an insulated teacher you think you know about spousal abuse?  You knew all about those poor GED kids in their 'tough' situations.

And no matter what you think you said, you clearly stated that women get beat everyday and no one gives a fuck.  They only care when it's a celeb, which is clearly everyone posting on this thread.  Some people care even when it doesn't involve some millionaire asshole in tights.  So if that's what you meant to say, then maybe you need to open up to everyone here who the assholes are?

Maybe you need to post a disclaimer with your comments and stop speaking for those who do care about this type of shit because they saw their old man put their mom in the hospital routinely growing up - or they just care about womens rights.  Maybe those people might see your comment as the asinine bullshit that it is.  I'm glad you have a nice support group here to back your inane rant up.

You've been a negative miserable dick ever since you joined this forum. No one including me was doing anything other then condemn Ray Rice's actions in this thread and you know it. You decided you needed a straw man so you could have someone to get after. It ain't gonna be me asshole. All you're doing is showing this forum the type of mean spirited person you are.

BTW...I was lucky, I grew up in a pretty great family. However, my wife was not, she grew up in a household like yours. I've learned a lot from her pain and what she has told me. You're a troll looking for a fight that doesn't exist in this thread, so you try to make one up.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

You've been a negative miserable dick ever since you joined this forum. No one including me was doing anything other then condemn Ray Rice's actions in this thread and you know it. You decided you needed a straw man so you could have someone to get after. It ain't gonna be me asshole. All you're doing is showing this forum the type of mean spirited person you are.

BTW...I was lucky, I grew up in a pretty great family. However, my wife was not, she grew up in a household like yours. I've learned a lot from her pain and what she has told me. You're a troll looking for a fight that doesn't exist in this thread, so you try to make one up.

I'm negative miserable dick when people are absolutely full of shit - I'm a pretty nice guy when people keep off their high horse and talk about stuff that pertains to something positive, like skiing, or outdoor recreation.

I didn't pick you as a straw man.  You ought to read the rest of the thread.  What about your friend camp?  The one who argued with me incessantly about state land regulations in the Adirondacks and didn't know wtf he was talking about.  I hate that uninformed, idiot BS.  That's what ruins areas like that.  You probably don't even remember why I argued with you at first, but I do.  And I still think you are a tool for believing that shit.

I wasn't trolling either.  Merely pointing out how politically incorrect your statement was.  It comes across saying that no one cares about abuse until a football player does it.  Yeah, who does?  The guys posting on this thread, there I said it.  Now there are plenty of groups of women activists who do give a shit - and they don't give a shit about football.  And there are people like me who give a shit because I've lived with it.  And over 50% of our population gives a shit, women.  You're comment sounds like something Mitt Romney would have said.  It's sexist and stupid and I called you out.  Get over it.

I care about it violence, celebs or no. I posted this because I thought Rice got a pass because he's a star, but what I learned was that a wife is a second class citizen according to the law.

I don't buy the difference between hitting your wife (domestic violence) and hitting another guy (assault).  Why should the rules be different?  Am I right in assuming that if that Rice punched some random guy in the elevator he'd be in more trouble?  How is that justice?  It's based on an outdated belief that sometimes in a relationship guys hit their wives. Bullshit.

My view is borderline unAmerican: every human life is equal.  A terrorist killed 3,000 innocent people in the world trade center and in response we killed an estimated 150,000 innocent people. Which crime is worse? I don't even like the phase "innocent civilians." Hell soldiers are victims too. People are people and the great majority are innocent.

Violence, domestic or otherwise is a human tragedy.  But who's condoning it?

The media has a ton of control over the national debate and the public is complicit.  It's ratings and money and it sucks.

MikeK wrote

I wasn't trolling either.  Merely pointing out how politically incorrect your statement was.  It comes across saying that no one cares about abuse until a football player does it.  Yeah, who does?  The guys posting on this thread, there I said it.  

That's not true and any fair minded person would know it. You've set yourself up as the thought police on this issue. Everybody better check with you to make sure what they post is ok otherwise you're going to rip them a new asshole. What I said was right on. Because it was Ray Rice its all over the news. If its the guy down the street and his wife it may be in the police blotter of the paper and no one will know even though its no less tragic. Its not that people don't care just as much its that they don't know. Often if they do read the police blotter they may think that's too bad and turn to the next page.

Probably overstepped my bounds already... but yeah, assault is assault.  The terms that come with segregating spousal abuse from a bar fight are the same terms that a civil rights activist that sought true equal terms for both men and women.

I feel that spousal abuse (man on man, woman on woman or man on woman) is a special case though, especially when children are involved.  It's quite a traumatic experience.  I'm not saying getting your ass kicked in a bar isn't going to be traumatic, but in the mind of a child, that stuff gets processed a bit more severely.

And if you really want to look back and see why it seems more socially acceptable to hit a man than a woman, you need only to look at nature.  Scientists can't quite agree whether these type of things are learned behavior or genetic (nature v nurture) but looking at other species similar to us I'd argue it's nature.  And in that case, it's hard to remove that genetic programming.  

Social stigmas can be hard to remove as well.  I still can't for the life of me figure out how in this day and age the data shows that, on average, women get paid less than men to do the same job.  It really just doesn't compute with me.

Harvey wrote

.My view is borderline unAmerican: every human life is equal.  A terrorist killed 3,000 innocent people in the world trade center and in response we killed an estimated 150,000 innocent people. Which crime is worse? I don't even like the phase "innocent civilians." Hell soldiers are victims too. People are people and the great majority are innocent.

That's strong...nothing about either is good. I guess you just need to know which side you're on and go with that. Some day human kind may loss the them against us mentality, but not in our life-time.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Women get beaten every day. ..where is the public outrage for them?  Oh yeah...celebrity.

I'm not so sure I agree with that sentiment. Isn't it a good thing that high profile athletes are being punished for bad behavior? We just had an owner that was forced to sell his team for spouting idiocy. It seems that pro sports teams are bringing a spotlight to the issue whereas in the past it might have been swept under the carpet. I concur there isn't enough outrage for the violence that happens across this country every minute of every day. But I think pro sports cracking down on this type of thing does shine a spotlight on it. If enough people say "that is a terrible thing, punish the dude" then perhaps lesser known asshats might gain some self control.

Or, more importantly for long term change, the up coming generations of younger people see that it is not acceptable and hold themselves to a higher standard. We've certainly seen that with things like race issues, which while still a lot of asshats, there is far less bigotry than before. I think high profile cases raise awareness in general of important issues, but it might take some generations to weed things out a bit.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

MikeK wrote

I wasn't trolling either.  Merely pointing out how politically incorrect your statement was.  It comes across saying that no one cares about abuse until a football player does it.  Yeah, who does?  The guys posting on this thread, there I said it.  

That's not true and any fair minded person would know it. You've set yourself up as the thought police on this issue. Everybody better check with you to make sure what they post is ok otherwise you're going to rip them a new asshole. What I said was right on. Because it was Ray Rice its all over the news. If its the guy down the street and his wife it may be in the police blotter of the paper and no one will know even though its no less tragic. Its not that people don't care just as much its that they don't know. Often if they do read the police blotter they may think that's too bad and turn to the next page.

Dude, if I was going to troll I wouldn't do it under my real name and I wouldn't post trips I've done.  I think you see the few negative comments I post and jump all over me like you assume I am jumping all over you.

Any 'fair minded person'?  Who are you?  We're not in your classroom and I'm not a HS kid.  You better call in the principle so he can tell you you're right.  It doesn't work that way in the real world, people can disagree with you and call you out.

And people do know about it.  In communities.  In families.  The nerve you strike is that some people turn a blind eye to it until some celeb does it.  Well maybe the drunken masses that watch pro sports do.  But plenty of people are very aware of this and do what they can to help those who need it.  It's the stigma of the past that it's nobodies business whether or not your parents are killing each other at night but theirs.  By making it our business, we get it out of the closet and onto the table.  That's how change works.

I don't think you're a bad guy, I just think your statement was sexist and ignorant, and I voiced my retort.  You could have chose to ignore, or explained yourself without the fuck off at the end.