Different Rules for Pro Athletes

riverc0il wrote

I think high profile cases raise awareness in general of important issues, but it might take some generations to weed things out a bit.

I'd love to see domestic abuse weeded out in my lifetime.

I've been contemplating this retarded article by the daily news and a facebook friend that I subsequently deleted about how "cat-calling" is actually ok. It isn't. All of this stuff is wrapped up in the some package that turns women into second class citizens. I guess I'm glad that this guy isn't playing pro-sports anymore, but that will surely make his life worse too. He needs mental help. And jail time. It's especially weird that the woman married him after this happened.  And that she apologized for "her role in the fight" today. No one should have to apologize for getting knocked out, unless it's in the first round at the garden and you took the fix money.

I agree with Mike, pro-sports are hard to watch because of shit like this.

But everyone else is crazy yelling at each other. I'm a pro-skier and I think everyone should chill.

campgottagopee wrote

Not sure why I even bother, pretty bored at work today I guess.

HS sports are fantastic, life learning lessons if you will. I wouldn't trade my experiences on a team for anything, that goes for HS and college. I'm sure there are some student athelets at the HS level that may get a pass thru, yes, that happens, but certainly not on a regular basis.

Curious, did you play HS sports??? Maybe you got cut and you're just full of hate for those who had what it takes

And campy, I'm kind of sick of arguing but I need to put you back in line.

I played sports in high school and I'll tell you what, I was no saint.  I did a lot stuff I can't mention because this account is tied to my name and the reality of my life somewhat.  I didn't beat up any women though, I can assure you that.

Anyway, I went to some hick school in Southern NY that you'd probably not know of, just as I wouldn't know many hick schools in CNY but the point is, we were reprimanded when we did stuff wrong, or were failing.  But I'm going to point out, there was nothing riding on us.  We had good teams in some stuff, and maybe a couple students in the whole history of our school district went to a D1 college to play sports.  I don't think there has ever been a pro athlete from our district.  Not to my knowledge.

But that isn't the case for larger schools.  That is where you will see the stakes higher and things slip.  If your likely to be a big time college athlete or pro, then I get the feeling the skids get greased here and there.  Why not?  What school doesn't want to be producing top athletes.  And who likes to lose because their star player is ineligible?

But let's look at the academic side.  And here's where you miss me entirely.  How many intelligent kids that will work in engineering or science get that kind of treatment?

And how many pro athletes retire their pro career to become great contributors to society in terms of engineering and science?  There are some, mind you, that probably could do both and have shown aptitude in sports and academics, but it's pretty rare.

You somehow think I'm against sports.  You need to go back and read my 3rd post or so in this thread.  I am not against sports.  I'm against sports as an entertainment and greed filled machine which seems to hold more importance to some people than the greatest advancements in human kind.

So you seem to think my 'hate' is because of jealousy.  Not so.  My 'hate' is more of a disgust, and is because of the degradation of society and humanity.  Sports are primal past time keeps us in shape, lets us have fun, and compete without killing each other (usually) but sports are not a focal point of our evolution as a species.  They are a glance at the past.  They do not solve the problems of society.  They are not for building role models.

MikeK wrote

And people do know about it.  In communities.  In families.  The nerve you strike is that some people turn a blind eye to it until some celeb does it.  Well maybe the drunken masses that watch pro sports do.  But plenty of people are very aware of this and do what they can to help those who need it.  It's the stigma of the past that it's nobodies business whether or not your parents are killing each other at night but theirs.  By making it our business, we get it out of the closet and onto the table.  That's how change works.

I never meant people don't know about it. I suspect everyone who has read this thread probably knows of someone who has been involved in domestic violence.

MikeK wrote

I don't think you're a bad guy, I just think your statement was sexist and ignorant, and I voiced my retort.  You could have chose to ignore, or explained yourself without the fuck off at the end.

That's the first funny thing I've ever read of yours and you didn't even mean it that way. I'm not a bad guy, but I'm sexist and ignorant.

Well with all due respect, I don't know you nor do I want to. You strike me as the type of guy who needs to be mad all the time and looks for reasons to stay that way. Nothing I wrote was sexist or ignorant, but you decided to try to frame it that way and claim the moral high ground for yourself. I think you failed,  I think you look like a petty and intolerant person.

I'm sure people are tired of this thread as am I. You and I don't like each other, we will never be forum friends, but we don't have to carry on like this either. I have a suggestion...I will agree to never reply to anything you post if you agree to do the same for me. We will post and let post. I've noticed you seem to need the last word in forum "Debates", so take it here if you like and then I hope we are done with each other. If you're not in agreement then I guess the band will have to play on.

MikeK wrote

Snowballs wrote

MikeK wrote

 Life's not fair.  The sooner you realize that, the less this will bother you.

No. Injustice will always bothers me. It should bother everybody.

Injustice always bothers people in the warm and fuzzy feel good corner of their mind.  But very rarely when it comes to acting out on it, do they...

Do you watch pro sports?

Do you think the person that assembled the computer you're typing on was paid a fair wage?

Maybe injustice doesn't bother you as much as you think...

Actually that is very, very incorrect. Your assumptions and your final sentence are an injustice. As this thread progressed, you've made assumptions and made false conclusions against others. That itself is an injustice and I'm acting on it. It's the main reason you're annoying me.

FYI, I do act on injustices, even at great risk to my own safety, because it does bother me that much. Many times I have jumped in, risking my own body to save people I didn't even know from physical violence they were suffering from punks like you, you pompous douchebag.

ml242 wrote

I'm a pro-skier and I think everyone should chill.

I can't believe you're a pro. I'm so much better than you!

MikeK wrote

 

And campy, I'm kind of sick of arguing but I need to put you back in line.
 

Thank you, thank you , thank you for putting me back in line

Your wisdom is soooooo appreciated

I truly don't know how I was going to get thru today without being put back in line

mattchuck2 wrote

ml242 wrote

I'm a pro-skier and I think everyone should chill.

I can't believe you're a pro. I'm so much better than you!

funny

mattchuck2 wrote

ml242 wrote

I'm a pro-skier and I think everyone should chill.

I can't believe you're a pro. I'm so much better than you!

 500 Points!!

riverc0il wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Women get beaten every day. ..where is the public outrage for them?  Oh yeah...celebrity.

I'm not so sure I agree with that sentiment. Isn't it a good thing that high profile athletes are being punished for bad behavior? We just had an owner that was forced to sell his team for spouting idiocy. It seems that pro sports teams are bringing a spotlight to the issue whereas in the past it might have been swept under the carpet. I concur there isn't enough outrage for the violence that happens across this country every minute of every day. But I think pro sports cracking down on this type of thing does shine a spotlight on it. If enough people say "that is a terrible thing, punish the dude" then perhaps lesser known asshats might gain some self control.

Or, more importantly for long term change, the up coming generations of younger people see that it is not acceptable and hold themselves to a higher standard. We've certainly seen that with things like race issues, which while still a lot of asshats, there is far less bigotry than before. I think high profile cases raise awareness in general of important issues, but it might take some generations to weed things out a bit.

+1

freeheeln wrote

riverc0il wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

Women get beaten every day. ..where is the public outrage for them?  Oh yeah...celebrity.

I'm not so sure I agree with that sentiment. Isn't it a good thing that high profile athletes are being punished for bad behavior? We just had an owner that was forced to sell his team for spouting idiocy. It seems that pro sports teams are bringing a spotlight to the issue whereas in the past it might have been swept under the carpet. I concur there isn't enough outrage for the violence that happens across this country every minute of every day. But I think pro sports cracking down on this type of thing does shine a spotlight on it. If enough people say "that is a terrible thing, punish the dude" then perhaps lesser known asshats might gain some self control.

Or, more importantly for long term change, the up coming generations of younger people see that it is not acceptable and hold themselves to a higher standard. We've certainly seen that with things like race issues, which while still a lot of asshats, there is far less bigotry than before. I think high profile cases raise awareness in general of important issues, but it might take some generations to weed things out a bit.

+1

I agree with this, too. A lot of people in this country seem to only pay attention to major issues (racism, domestic violence, drug policy, unions, etc.) when they concern sports personalities (or celebrities, or politicians, or whatever side culture they're personally involved in). I mean, we went through this same thing with Chris Brown a few years ago, which got the don't-fucking-hit-women-you-fucking-asshole message out to people who follow celebrity culture, but apparently it missed those people who only care about sports.

I think it's good that this gets out there and the idea that it's okay to beat a woman (or harm a dog - Vick, or be completely racist - Sterling, etc.) is shot down quickly and without question. It lets people who might otherwise be prone to that sort of behavior know what is or isn't acceptable in our society. And if it reaches a few sports fans who only listen to ESPN Radio or Jim Rome or NFL Radio, then I don't see the problem (besides the unfortunality of rehashing an ugly period in this woman's life over and over and over again).

mattchuck2 wrote

A lot of people in this country seem to only pay attention to major issues (racism, domestic violence, drug policy, unions, etc.) when they concern sports personalities (or celebrities, or politicians, or whatever side culture they're personally involved in).

Some of this is media and of course our consumption of it.

Personally if I saw Joe Schmoe  (vs Joe Famous Football Player) knock his wife unconscious and get counseling vs any kind of real consequences, I'd be just as bummed.

One thing that being famous does - that punch cost Rice $10 million (?) That's a message that will resonate with some people.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

MikeK wrote

And people do know about it.  In communities.  In families.  The nerve you strike is that some people turn a blind eye to it until some celeb does it.  Well maybe the drunken masses that watch pro sports do.  But plenty of people are very aware of this and do what they can to help those who need it.  It's the stigma of the past that it's nobodies business whether or not your parents are killing each other at night but theirs.  By making it our business, we get it out of the closet and onto the table.  That's how change works.

I never meant people don't know about it. I suspect everyone who has read this thread probably knows of someone who has been involved in domestic violence.

MikeK wrote

I don't think you're a bad guy, I just think your statement was sexist and ignorant, and I voiced my retort.  You could have chose to ignore, or explained yourself without the fuck off at the end.

That's the first funny thing I've ever read of yours and you didn't even mean it that way. I'm not a bad guy, but I'm sexist and ignorant.

Well with all due respect, I don't know you nor do I want to. You strike me as the type of guy who needs to be mad all the time and looks for reasons to stay that way. Nothing I wrote was sexist or ignorant, but you decided to try to frame it that way and claim the moral high ground for yourself. I think you failed,  I think you look like a petty and intolerant person.

I'm sure people are tired of this thread as am I. You and I don't like each other, we will never be forum friends, but we don't have to carry on like this either. I have a suggestion...I will agree to never reply to anything you post if you agree to do the same for me. We will post and let post. I've noticed you seem to need the last word in forum "Debates", so take it here if you like and then I hope we are done with each other. If you're not in agreement then I guess the band will have to play on.

Now, why 'oh why would I take your suggestion?  So you can be happy that you 'won' the debate and had the last word.  I feel like everything you write you should read back to yourself very carefully.  You seem like, at least on a forum, a person who can't handle criticism and freaks out and cries when you are.  And then you have to save face and prove that you are better than the other person by justifying what you wrote.  

Seen as how you wanted to make it personal and prejudge each other I will say I've known many teachers like that who can't handle criticism - they want to lecture their ideas and never be challenged.  It's easy to do that with kids.  I'm an adult.

I never stated YOU are sexist or ignorant, merely the few words you put down.  Perhaps you meant something different but you absolutely freaked out at a comment that wasn't even all that bad in my mind.  It certainly wasn't ripping you a new asshole, just stating that some extreme feminists might not agree with what you said.  I chose to use lesbian rallyist as as supporters of extreme feminism because in my experience, most I know are (I can't believe I need to explain that? but I know all too well how things can be misinterpreted on forums).

So anyway, if you can't handle a grown up conversation where someone challenges or makes a snide remark about something you say, then maybe you need to back to lecturing and send those with outbursts to the principle to be punished.

I will, in no way, modify my behavior to accommodate you.  You can choose to ignore me.  The mod can choose to boot me.  But I will by no means bend over for some asshole who can't handle other adults and needs to separate us in corners like children.

Snowballs wrote

MikeK wrote

Snowballs wrote

MikeK wrote

 Life's not fair.  The sooner you realize that, the less this will bother you.

No. Injustice will always bothers me. It should bother everybody.

Injustice always bothers people in the warm and fuzzy feel good corner of their mind.  But very rarely when it comes to acting out on it, do they...

Do you watch pro sports?

Do you think the person that assembled the computer you're typing on was paid a fair wage?

Maybe injustice doesn't bother you as much as you think...

Actually that is very, very incorrect. Your assumptions and your final sentence are an injustice. As this thread progressed, you've made assumptions and made false conclusions against others. That itself is an injustice and I'm acting on it. It's the main reason you're annoying me.

FYI, I do act on injustices, even at great risk to my own safety, because it does bother me that much. Many times I have jumped in, risking my own body to save people I didn't even know from physical violence they were suffering from punks like you, you pompous douchebag.

Why don't you just answer the questions?  You're blowing a bunch of smoke.

No one is perfect and injustices go unnoticed by people all the time.  Some we choose to live with, others we are enraged by.  Most of it comes down your personal experience in life and what has affected you or ones you know or love.

My original point was not to contradict you, but to point out that you will never be able to realistically act out on every injustice.

I believe motorboats are detrimental to water quality, spread invasive species, and erode shorelines with wave making.  I believe that to be unjust to those who drink the water and animals who's life and habitat depends on it.  But do you think about those things when tooling around in your boat on Lake George?  I highly doubt it.  And you'll respond that YOU don't make it different.  Well maybe... but how do you know?

I comment or try to modify my behavior based on a lot of these things.  I don't have the answer for a lot of things.  And I can't practically live my life in society without accepting some of them.  Others, I'm rabid about, as you can see.

MikeK wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

He was treated under the law like any other first-time offender.  Women get beaten every day. ..where is the public outrage for them?  Oh yeah...celebrity.

I dare you to say that at a lesbian rally.  People get big balls behind a computer screen.

There is public outrage everyday for physical abuse against women.  You just choose to ignore it... probably too busy watching football

I can handle criticism and I enjoy a debate of different ideas, it's condescending statements (like the one above) that set me off. Had you made your point in a civil manner you would have gotten a different response from me. The type of back and forth we've had I don't enjoy at all. I wish I could just ignore it, but I feel forum bullies like you need to be challenged or they take over.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

MikeK wrote

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

He was treated under the law like any other first-time offender.  Women get beaten every day. ..where is the public outrage for them?  Oh yeah...celebrity.

I dare you to say that at a lesbian rally.  People get big balls behind a computer screen.

There is public outrage everyday for physical abuse against women.  You just choose to ignore it... probably too busy watching football

I can handle criticism and I enjoy a debate of different ideas, it's condescending statements (like the one above) that set me off. Had you made your point in a civil manner you would have gotten a different response from me. The type of back and forth we've had I don't enjoy at all. I wish I could just ignore it, but I feel forum bullies like you need to be challenged or they take over.

OK so I will concede, now, that I know what you meant by that statement.  I would have conceded that long ago if you wouldn't have ended your reply with go fuck yourself or whatever it was.

You still will not concede that your statement may have been seen as saying no one gives two shits about women being beat unless it is a celebrity.  I'd like to say you've stated over and over that isn't the case in your personal life.  It isn't the case in mine either.  And I can also happily say that many of the people I call my friends are very well aware of this beyond the public spotlight.  So people do give two shits.  Like I say, maybe not the beer swilling masses that watch football, but that isn't everyone.

As far as the original question, I don't disagree, he was disciplined per the law.  But I think the deeper question that was originally asked is if athletes should be made an example of because they are in the public spotlight?

In my utopia, no.  Athletes would not be seen as the role models that they are and the law would be more strict about these kind of things.  

In the real world, that is not the case.  Athletes are seen as role models and the law is lenient.  But often times the law has a hard time deciding what the real situation was, and maybe family or community can better help these situations.  Maybe publicly flaming someone isn't the right answer?  I don't know truth be told.  I hate to see it happen and it makes me foam at the mouth when I hear about it, but I also don't have a good solution to fix it.  My thought is teaching people to communicate better so that situations don't escalate to violence (I feel a bit hypocritical saying that because perhaps my words are a harsh at times, but I feel better about communicating that rather than resorting to physical violence) - but I don't believe that is an easy thing to do.

I apologize for catching you in the crossfire.  I would have said what I said to anyone given your original statement and my processing of it.  Don't take it personal.  It only became personal later and I won't hold a grudge.

I'm a bit miffed that you see me as bully, I don't often view myself that way but I am not afraid to speak or of confrontation if that's what you mean?  I believe there is a big difference between being assertive and opinionated and  causing a fight for the sake of a fight or picking on someone for some unrelated reason.  But I can see how you'd see my comment as rude - it certainly wasn't meant to be polite.  It was meant to make you think about what you stated.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

  I wish I could just ignore it, but I feel forum bullies like you need to be challenged or they take over.

This dude aint takin over shit

Where the hell is NJ when you need him

I don't mean to imply you can't handle yourself because obviously you can. NJ just makes me look up words so I can understand what the hell he's talking about......well, sometimes TJ will PM me and explain it to me

MikeK wrote

As far as the original question, I don't disagree, he was disciplined per the law.  But I think the deeper question that was originally asked is if athletes should be made an example of because they are in the public spotlight?

In my utopia, no.  Athletes would not be seen as the role models that they are and the law would be more strict about these kind of things.  

In the real world, that is not the case.  Athletes are seen as role models and the law is lenient.

Plaxico Burress says hi

x10003q wrote

 

Plaxico Burress says hi

NOW THAT WAS FUNNY

too bad cause the giants could really use him

MikeK wrote

You still will not concede that your statement may have been seen as saying no one gives two shits about women being beat unless it is a celebrity.

I concede the hell out of the fact that things posted on the internet can be taken the wrong way. All we see is words on a screen, in our case we don't know what the other person is like, we can't see facial expression or hear tone of voice so things get taken the wrong way all the time.

That said, I kept telling you that you had taken me the wrong way and you didn't want to hear it. I took it as you were twisting my words on purpose to try to fit your narrative. I was trying to point out that the light of public opinion shines brightly on celebrity cases while countless other victims remain in the dark. As others in this thread have pointed out the celebrity cases getting so much attention get people talking about the horrors of domestic abuse and that is a good thing. I agree with that too.

So anyway Mike I'm hoping this is the last post in this thread, not because I want to beat you in a debate, I just want it to end. I appreciate why you feel so strongly about this issue. As I posted before my wife witnessed a lot of terrible things when she was a child too, I feel strongly about it also.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

MikeK wrote

You still will not concede that your statement may have been seen as saying no one gives two shits about women being beat unless it is a celebrity.

I concede the hell out of the fact that things posted on the internet can be taken the wrong way. All we see is words on a screen, in our case we don't know what the other person is like, we can't see facial expression or hear tone of voice so things get taken the wrong way all the time.

That said, I kept telling you that you had taken me the wrong way and you didn't want to hear it. I took it as you were twisting my words on purpose to try to fit your narrative. I was trying to point out that the light of public opinion shines brightly on celebrity cases while countless other victims remain in the dark. As others in this thread have pointed out the celebrity cases getting so much attention get people talking about the horrors of domestic abuse and that is a good thing. I agree with that too.

So anyway Mike I'm hoping this is the last post in this thread, not because I want to beat you in a debate, I just want it to end. I appreciate why you feel so strongly about this issue. As I posted before my wife witnessed a lot of terrible things when she was a child too, I feel strongly about it also.

I'd love to be done but wasn't my first comment about how a particular group might interpret that comment?  Would you have explained yourself and then said go fuck yourself to them?  How do you think they would have interpreted your explanation?  As phony, or as genuine?

You've been defending yourself since your first response.  And you still are.  I'm not sure why you keep responding if it doesn't mean anything to you and you didn't think you did something wrong?  Are you trying to put the 'bully' in his place?

I can see by what you picked out exactly to quote in my last post that this really bothered you.  I tried to apologize and move the conversation forward and you fixated on defending your honor.  And actually you kept telling me what a giant dick I am and attacking me.  I went back and read it a few times.  I don't see how you were exactly being as diplomatic as you say you were now.

Like I said, you may not be a bad guy, but your statement came across as sexist and ignorant, end of story.  How many others have been caught in this situation?

I'm going to leave you be now.  I see I've upset all you drinking buddies and ruined your forum.  I don't really fit in with a bunch of crotchety ski geezers anyway.  About all I have in common with y'all is waxed boards.