GREEK PEAK MOUNTAIN RESORT AND TOGGENBURG MOUNTAIN

campgottagopee wrote

Rj1972 wrote

Egos got in the way.

You're so far off base with this it's not even funny. Care to share whatever you are smoking???

These guys are some of the chillest dudes you could ever want to meet. Sounds like your jealous to me.

What am I off base with?

I've spoken to both gentlemen on a number of occasions. I also know the prior owners and some of the managers that work for for Marc and John. Jealously is far from the truth, as I have a pretty good idea of the capital required to turn GP around, and quite honestly, I'm not convinced the local demographics can support such an investment. I'd rather not spin the roulette wheel with my own funds. I have no regrets of not pursuing GP further. As I've said before, there is a reason Ritz Carlton never built a property in Virgil, NY.

We certainly can agree to disagree. There's nothing wrong with that.

Skimore and Camp - I totally agree. I actually assumed that only a small % of the Togg passholderes would buy up and go ski GP. Most are probably just fine at Togg. But that plan would have appeased the GP passholders who might feel cheated (although I bet a huge number of them don't even know GP bought Togg yet.)

It doesn't make sense that a person could go to Togg's site and buy a Togg pass right now for what...two thirds the current GP price? And ski both mountains.

Good customer sat plan would have been something like I proposed, for a limited time offer for current Togg passholders. No easy way to rectify it now.

Any speculation or whispers about what the season pass price structure will look like for Greek/Togg next season?

Rj1972 wrote

I'm not convinced the local demographics can support such an investment.

I think the owners get that. Check out the out of state license plates in the parking lot sometime - especially at the waterpark. I bet a large number of their season passes are sold to people who come to visit for a few long weekends or a week or two.

campgottagopee wrote

Rj1972 wrote

  Marc and John are out of their element,  

Obviously!
Let's see ---- we have new lifts, new snowmaking, new bar, new rental, new repair,  new deck, new downhill mountain biking, Trax open year round, the hotel was the busiest (if not busier) than I've ever seen it in the summer, AND a new place to ski this winter. DUDE, you're right! They suck at what they do

ahhahahahahaaaa  was thinking the same thing

campgottagopee wrote

skimore wrote

billyymc wrote

What Greek could have done is allow the GP pass holders access to both mountain, and allow the Tog pass holders the ability to "buy up" their passes if they want to ski both. I.e. - Tog pass holders pay the difference between what they paid for their Tog pass, and the pre-season price of a GP pass.

You're assuming they perceive any value in this. It's quite possible that the Tog people aren't flocking to Greek to get one over on everyone. The place ain't all that. It's kind of the same shit that's in their backyard that takes them 10 minutes to get to.

I was going to make that exact same point. I doubt too many Togg peeps would make the drive until all terrain was in play. Skiing groomers is just that.

May be the Greek people should also have some kind of buy up fee to ski both mountains. Who's to say their pass is anymore valuable than the Tog persons?

It cost more in the first place dumba%%.

I don't even know why I post here.

billyymc wrote

Rj1972 wrote

I'm not convinced the local demographics can support such an investment.

I think the owners get that. Check out the out of state license plates in the parking lot sometime - especially at the waterpark. I bet a large number of their season passes are sold to people who come to visit for a few long weekends or a week or two.

This, and Big Al got this as well. I'm always surprised how much GP/HL marketing I see in greater Philadelphia area and how many DC/MD folks I run into.

IF (I have no idea) Cortland development funds were used to buy Togg, then it makes sense that there would be strings attached.  Nobody gives you money for the hell of it. Be interesting to see what the price structure is next year.  All I know is that "it will be different."

Doesn't mean it holds anymore value to someone. It's the same thing your bitchin about

Skimore - I'm not bitching about anything. I don't have a dog in the hunt since we defected to Song/Lab this year.

The point of the "Buy Up" concept is that everyone would be getting an equivalent product/service for the same price.

If you asked Greek pass holders to buy up to get to ski Togg as well, two things would happen. 1 - you'd have to ask Togg pass holders to buy up even more so the prices were equivalent to ski both mountains, and 2 - you would assure that nobody from either mountain would buy up.

Now a days it does not matter who you are every one cheats.  Anyone who says that don't is a liar as well.

billyymc wrote

The point of the "Buy Up" concept is that everyone would be getting an equivalent product/service for the same price.

You're still assuming there's value to someone for the higher priced product. Tog pays x and Greek pays y. Why should the higher priced y product entitle someone free use of the x product

skimore wrote

You're still assuming there's value to someone for the higher priced product. Tog pays x and Greek pays y. Why should the higher priced y product entitle someone free use of the x product

Isn't that the deal? Greek pass holders can ski at Togg for free, Togg pass holders can ski at Greek for free? From the Togg website (copied right now): "The combination of Toggenburg and Greek Peak will allow season pass holders for the best "two for one" value in Central New York skiing and boarding with reciprocal season pass privileges at each mountain." So Togg pass holders get access to two mountains for less than the price Greek pass holders paid. Asking Togg pass holders to buy up would have been fair to Greek pass holders - everyone gets the same product / access for the same price. According to the Togg website I could buy a Togg season pass right now and pay $345 for it - less than the cheapest Greek pass (purchased before April 15 this year) and way less than I'd pay for a GP pass right now. There would be no point in asking Greek passholders to pay more -- that would be stupid. Skimore - do you ever find yourself looking at a wheel and thinking there might be a better shape for it than a circle? I have no idea why this came out in one paragraph.

I understand the current program. I guess you can't grasp the concept that the higher priced item shouldn't automatically entitle someone to the lower. Both items should require some kind of nominal fee for using the other. You're stating the Greek people should get to ski Tog for free because their pass cost more

billyymc wrote

Rj1972 wrote

I'm not convinced the local demographics can support such an investment.

I think the owners get that. Check out the out of state license plates in the parking lot sometime - especially at the waterpark. I bet a large number of their season passes are sold to people who come to visit for a few long weekends or a week or two.

However, the out-of-state busses that used to pour into the ski area parking lot from NJ and PA back in the 70's and 80's are a thing of the past. GP used to be on the leading edge when it came to facilities, lifts, and ski school programs. The cost to recapture that segment would be staggering, if not impossible. HLL attracts many from NYC, NJ, and PA, but I'm afraid you don't see those same plates in the ski area parking lot. That's OK; however, I enjoy the place and lack of lift lines, despite the infrastructure. Plus, GP has a "high speed express quad lift" courtesy of the most ethical owners in the ski industry.

Oh boy. Let's see, can you imagine the dust up and outright bitchin if this happened at Orda ? Say a Gore pass sold for $345 while a Face pass sold for $599 with the passes being good at both mtns. Face people would be SCREAMING !!!!!

Hehehehe.

Yea I know, the situation would be reversed i.e. the Gore people would have to pay more, be very unhappy and the Face crowd would be saying stfu losers.

skimore wrote

I understand the current program. I guess you can't grasp the concept that the higher priced item shouldn't automatically entitle someone to the lower. Both items should require some kind of nominal fee for using the other. You're stating the Greek people should get to ski Tog for free because their pass cost more

Wrong. That's not what I"m saying at all. I'm saying that GP pass holders have paid more than Togg pass holders for their passes, and both get the same end product (i.e. - they both get to ski Greek and Togg unlimited).

They should pay the same price for the same product. So if GP pass holders pay $500 to ski both GP and Togg, then Togg pass holders should pay the same amount to ski both. The increase to Togg holders would be more if they made Greek pass holders pay more too.

Seriously, you're making this too f'n complex. Equal pay for equal play.

billyymc wrote

Equal pay for equal play.

x1000. You're absolutely right Billy.

Rj1972 wrote

billyymc wrote

Rj1972 wrote

I'm not convinced the local demographics can support such an investment.

I think the owners get that. Check out the out of state license plates in the parking lot sometime - especially at the waterpark. I bet a large number of their season passes are sold to people who come to visit for a few long weekends or a week or two.

However, the out-of-state busses that used to pour into the ski area parking lot from NJ and PA back in the 70's and 80's are a thing of the past. GP used to be on the leading edge when it came to facilities, lifts, and ski school programs. The cost to recapture that segment would be staggering, if not impossible. HLL attracts many from NYC, NJ, and PA, but I'm afraid you don't see those same plates in the ski area parking lot.  

MAN_0_MAN I too remember those days. As a kid I remember standing in line for the lift for what seemed like hours. Just think if some of that money from the 70's and 80's was put back into the hill, most likely none of us would be having this conversation

Say it ain't so TJ! Not you too! :)

If the Greek thing pisses you off, Magic would make your brain explode.   I'd heard that when the most recent sale was imminent the online season pass sales were paused.  When the sale fell through and online sales were reinstated the price for a season pass dropped $150.  So ...the early deadline premium vs the early season discount.