GREEK PEAK MOUNTAIN RESORT AND TOGGENBURG MOUNTAIN

campgottagopee wrote

Show me one good biz man who doesn't have a little bit of larceny in them and I'll show you and bad biz man.

False. Larceny is not a prerequisite for success in business.
In fact it's just the opposite.  Dishonest businesses who rip off or deceive their customers will soon find themselves out of business.  Customers are smarter than that and they'll walk in a second.

All you have to do to solve this problem, if it is a problem, is take something away from customers, that you've given them, for free.

Harvey wrote

All you have to do to solve this problem, if it is a problem, is take something away from customers, that you've given them, for free.

Like what ? Besides, that sounds adversarial as does this whole varying pass prices.  

Adk Jeff wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Show me one good biz man who doesn't have a little bit of larceny in them and I'll show you and bad biz man.

False. Larceny is not a prerequisite for success in business.
In fact it's just the opposite.  Dishonest businesses who rip off or deceive their customers will soon find themselves out of business.  Customers are smarter than that and they'll walk in a second.

You certainly are entitled to your opinion

Adk Jeff wrote

When you give away for free to NEW customers the same product that your LOYAL customers have been paying for all along, you're going to alienate those loyal customers.

I agree with your statement but that's not what happened in this case.

Harvey wrote

All you have to do to solve this problem, if it is a problem, is take something away from customers, that you've given them, for free.

I'm not sure I understand your solution. Back pedaling and saying "no, never mind, no pass reciprocity this year" would only make things worse.

campgottagopee wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

  When you give away for free to NEW customers the same product that your LOYAL customers have been paying for all along, you're going to alienate those loyal customers.

I agree with your statement but that's not what happened in this case.

Perhaps in your view.  But I can understand how some GP passholders would feel differently.

They may feel that way at first glance but the reality is it happens every day.  I buy a car and the next month they are offering 2k cash back.  The skis I just bought are 200 bucks cheaper the next month.  Its the way things work.  

Adk Jeff wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

  When you give away for free to NEW customers the same product that your LOYAL customers have been paying for all along, you're going to alienate those loyal customers.

I agree with your statement but that's not what happened in this case.

Perhaps in your view.  But I can understand how some GP passholders would feel differently.

Really??? I can't even imagine living in a glass half empty world. That way of thinking just blows my mind.

Any chance that GP eventually closes up Tog the way Jiminy Peak shut down Brodie? The Jiminy ownership put in a restriction that the new owner could not operate a ski area on the site.

campgottagopee wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

When you give away for free to NEW customers the same product that your LOYAL customers have been paying for all along, you're going to alienate those loyal customers.

I agree with your statement but that's not what happened in this case.

Perhaps in your view.  But I can understand how some GP passholders would feel differently.

Really??? I can't even imagine living in a glass half empty world. That way of thinking just blows my mind.

And I can understand your point of view as well.  But for a business, customers are customers, whether they live in a glass-half-empty or glass-half-full world.  And if a business chooses a strategy that alienates the glass-half-empty crowd when they could have chosen a strategy that keeps everyone happy, that's not a good thing for the business.

x10003q wrote

Any chance that GP eventually closes up Tog the way Jiminy Peak shut down Brodie? The Jiminy ownership put in a restriction that the new owner could not operate a ski area on the site.

I'd guess that's very unlikely. Togg has a pretty faithful following from the "Cuse area. If that were to happen I'd be shocked.

tjf1967 wrote

They may feel that way at first glance but the reality is it happens every day.  I buy a car and the next month they are offering 2k cash back.  The skis I just bought are 200 bucks cheaper the next month.  Its the way things work.

No. Your analogy is apples to oranges. In this case, using your example, at the very same time the ski shop sold you (a long time customer) skis, it sold a newbie the same skis for 40% less. Sucka!

Suppose you go to a gas station and pay $6.00 per gallon yet the car before you and the car right behind you pay $3.45 per gallon ? You'd be angry.

No doubt GP is playing a shell game and the victims have every right to be pissed.

My understanding is both season passes entitles you to complimentary day passes at the other mountain, not quite the same thing. I doubt I would head to tog to buy my pass and then have to stand in line each day to redeem at gp but that's just me. for a family it might mean big savings but also a big pain in the ass as I'm sure each passholder would need to be present.

What Greek could have done is allow the GP pass holders access to both mountain, and allow the Tog pass holders the ability to "buy up" their passes if they want to ski both. I.e. - Tog pass holders pay the difference between what they paid for their Tog pass, and the pre-season price of a GP pass.

Those who choose to buy up get a Greek pass and access to both hills, and pay the same price as anyone who bought a pre-season GP pass. Those who don't buy up get a Tog labelled pass and access to Tog only. And the longtime GP passholders don't feel cheated by Tog passholders getting to ski Greek for less than the cost of a GP season pass.

Pretty simple solution, and as fair as you can really be in this situation.

But it's too late to do that now.

gorgonzola wrote

My understanding is both season passes entitles you to complimentary day passes at the other mountain, not quite the same thing. I doubt I would head to tog to buy my pass and then have to stand in line each day to redeem at gp but that's just me. for a family it might mean big savings but also a big pain in the ass as I'm sure each passholder would need to be present.

I agree, that is different.  Whether it's enough differentiation to prevent customers from being pissed, apparently not.  

billyymc wrote

What Greek could have done is allow the GP pass holders access to both mountain, and allow the Tog pass holders the ability to "buy up" their passes if they want to ski both. I.e. - Tog pass holders pay the difference between what they paid for their Tog pass, and the pre-season price of a GP pass.

Those who choose to buy up get a Greek pass and access to both hills, and pay the same price as anyone who bought a pre-season GP pass. Those who don't buy up get a Tog labelled pass and access to Tog only. And the longtime GP passholders don't feel cheated by Tog passholders getting to ski Greek for less than the cost of a GP season pass.

Pretty simple solution, and as fair as you can really be in this situation.

But it's too late to do that now.

Jeff and Billy, you are spot on!

Billy's idea is the fair and honest way to have done it.

If they feel some heat, perhaps GP has enough wiggle room in their public statements to revert to the comp day passes mentioned above. From what has been posted here, it looks like they have.

Adk Jeff wrote

Harvey wrote

All you have to do to solve this problem, if it is a problem, is take something away from customers, that you've given them, for free.

I'm not sure I understand your solution. Back pedaling and saying "no, never mind, no pass reciprocity this year" would only make things worse.

It was a flip comment, I wasn't really suggesting they take back something after the fact.  

Just thinking, if they had said...

"Same as last year, Greek passholders ski GP and Togg passholders ski Togg, and we'll work out some kind of pricing arrangement next year."

... then this discussion would be different.

In this case M+J are adding in a small extra bonus for both groups: "you can also ski another mountain no extra charge."  So they are giving each customer what they paid for and a little bit more.

But it's a problem. Human nature is such that you don't really look at the cost and benefit and then decide on value. To some extent it's about how you did compared to the next guy.

gorgonzola wrote

My understanding is both season passes entitles you to complimentary day passes at the other mountain, not quite the same thing. I doubt I would head to tog to buy my pass and then have to stand in line each day to redeem at gp but that's just me. for a family it might mean big savings but also a big pain in the ass as I'm sure each passholder would need to be present.

I know this well. I push my wife to ski 12 days a year to break even on her Gore pass, but, for a variety of reasons, she hasn't done it the last two years.  She told me to get her an Empire Card or whatever, but it would drive me nuts to have her waiting to get a day ticket while Neve and I are ready to go. So I eat it, clinging to the hope that she will ski more.