GREEK PEAK MOUNTAIN RESORT AND TOGGENBURG MOUNTAIN

Rj1972 wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

The first rule in customer acquisition - whether it's done organically or through acquisition - is to neither piss off nor cannibalize your existing customer base.  If I were a GP passholder, I'd be both pissed and cannibalized.

Well, they pissed off the Cascade Club members when they purchased GP by stating that they did not have the funds to honor those memberships as sold. Individuals spent $10K apiece on those memberships.

I would think you "Club" members would be more pissed at the people who sold you that bill of goods rather than the guys who stepped in to save the best hill in CNY. It's not their fault the hill came with a boat anchor which sank the ship. That said, HLL is beautiful and from what I can see they've had a busy summer there. Busiest I can recall.

campgottagopee wrote

Rj1972 wrote

Adk Jeff wrote

The first rule in customer acquisition - whether it's done organically or through acquisition - is to neither piss off nor cannibalize your existing customer base.  If I were a GP passholder, I'd be both pissed and cannibalized.

Well, they pissed off the Cascade Club members when they purchased GP by stating that they did not have the funds to honor those memberships as sold. Individuals spent $10K apiece on those memberships.

I would think you "Club" members would be more pissed at the people who sold you that bill of goods rather than the guys who stepped in to save the best hill in CNY. It's not their fault the hill came with a boat anchor which sank the ship. That said, HLL is beautiful and from what I can see they've had a busy summer there. Busiest I can recall.

Camp, you make a good point. Part of the challenge is that during the entire bankruptcy proceedings, Kryger and Company kept telling us that all of the potential buyers/bidders intended to honor the Cascades Club memberships. Obviously this was not entirely factual. Even during a joint tour and meeting I attended with another potential bidder, a brief discussion of the Cascade program arose. When we entertained the notion of possibly making a play for the assets ourselves, we were advised that although we did not have to honor most prior obligations, upsetting the apple cart with some of the most dedicated GP families was probably something we had better give thought to.

There were around 60 Cascade Club members at the time, so a buyout would have run $600K, assuming the contract was fully honored as written. Not a huge sum of money, but none-the-less, a sum of money.

There is still no mention of the Toggenburg acquisition on GP's website, or the reciprocity of GP and Togg passes. However, Togg's homepage clearly states that Togg passes are valid at GP. Maybe it was an oversight, but I doubt it. It certainly will not create any brand loyalty if one purchases a GP pass for $599 and later finds out they could have had a Togg pass for $345 valid at GP.

I wonder if a resort fee applies to Togg passes???  

I coulda shoulda bought Google at 100. I paid what I paid cuz I thought it was worth what I paid. And it was

Or .....I ordered an 8 cut pizza last night but I didn't think I could eat 8 slices, so I had it cut into 6 .

Snowballs wrote

Or .....I ordered an 8 cut pizza last night but I didn't think I could eat 8 slices, so I had it cut into 6 .

OK Yogi, except I paid $20 for the same pizza somebody else paid $15 for. It's not fair, any way you slice it.

Cornhead wrote

Snowballs wrote

Or .....I ordered an 8 cut pizza last night but I didn't think I could eat 8 slices, so I had it cut into 6 .

OK Yogi, except I paid $20 for the same pizza somebody else paid $15 for. It's not fair, any way you slice it.

So go to the $15 pizza shop and buy your pizza

Rj1972 wrote

There is still no mention of the Toggenburg acquisition on GP's website, or the reciprocity of GP and Togg passes. However, Togg's homepage clearly states that Togg passes are valid at GP. Maybe it was an oversight, but I doubt it. It certainly will not create any brand loyalty if one purchases a GP pass for $599 and later finds out they could have had a Togg pass for $345 valid at GP.

I wonder if a resort fee applies to Togg passes???  

Don't think they're really trying to keep it a secret when it was on the morning news today.....

http://www.localsyr.com/community/bridge-street

Cornhead wrote

Snowballs wrote

Or .....I ordered an 8 cut pizza last night but I didn't think I could eat 8 slices, so I had it cut into 6 .

OK Yogi, except I paid $20 for the same pizza somebody else paid $15 for. It's not fair, any way you slice it.

He was the best. That guy was funny.

campgottagopee wrote

Cornhead wrote

Snowballs wrote

Or .....I ordered an 8 cut pizza last night but I didn't think I could eat 8 slices, so I had it cut into 6 .

OK Yogi, except I paid $20 for the same pizza somebody else paid $15 for. It's not fair, any way you slice it.

So go to the $15 pizza shop and buy your pizza

Too late, already got hosed for $20. Just like all other GP pass holders, we all bought in April, didn't you?

Cornhead wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Cornhead wrote

Snowballs wrote

Or .....I ordered an 8 cut pizza last night but I didn't think I could eat 8 slices, so I had it cut into 6 .

OK Yogi, except I paid $20 for the same pizza somebody else paid $15 for. It's not fair, any way you slice it.

So go to the $15 pizza shop and buy your pizza

Too late, already got hosed for $20.

Hmmmmmm, so a guy buys a $20 pizza, gets exactly what he paid for and MORE!! Guess maybe in the future pizza buyers need to wait because obviously pizza shop owners buy new pizza shops all the time.

campgottagopee wrote

Cornhead wrote

campgottagopee wrote

Cornhead wrote

Snowballs wrote

Or .....I ordered an 8 cut pizza last night but I didn't think I could eat 8 slices, so I had it cut into 6 .

OK Yogi, except I paid $20 for the same pizza somebody else paid $15 for. It's not fair, any way you slice it.

So go to the $15 pizza shop and buy your pizza

Too late, already got hosed for $20.

Hmmmmmm, so a guy buys a $20 pizza, gets exactly what he paid for and MORE!! Guess maybe in the future pizza buyers need to wait because obviously pizza shop owners buy new pizza shops all the time.

Yes, I am eternally grateful I can now ski Togg on my GP pass. Don't you think the Togg pass holders got a better deal being able to ski GP  for less than we paid for the same privileges? I should have learned by now, no arguing with homers.

campgottagopee wrote

So go to the $15 pizza shop and buy your pizza

That's what we did. Spent our money at the SongLab pizza shop and had a lot left over to spend at other pizza shops. Maybe even a few $ at the Greek pizza place.  

If the Greek pizza shop had better discounts for families we wouldn't be trying other pizzas. But $700 buys a lot of extra pizzas. I hope we don't hate our new pizza.

Cornhead wrote

 
Yes, I am eternally grateful I can now ski Togg on my GP pass. Don't you think the Togg pass holders got a better deal being able to ski GP  for less than we paid for the same privileges? I should have learned by now, no arguing with homers.

Dude, not arguing, just diff in opinion. You were claiming you got "hosed", I can't see where that happened at all. Certainly Togg pass holders made out better as far as what terrain is available to them to ski, but we still get exactly what we paid for. How is that remotely considered getting hosed? If I was in the market for a pass I'd certainly buy a Togg pass now, I ain't stupid, but I'm guessing most avid skiers have already made a purchase. So again everyone is getting exactly what they paid for prior to the merger and MORE.
Don't think for one second GP won't benefit from this either. The dude from Togg/Vesper Hills knows his shit when it comes to running restaurants.  I think we can all agree this is something GP has room to improve on and now they have the tools to do it.

billyymc wrote

campgottagopee wrote

So go to the $15 pizza shop and buy your pizza

That's what we did. Spent our money at the SongLab pizza shop and had a lot left over to spend at other pizza shops. Maybe even a few $ at the Greek pizza place.  

If the Greek pizza shop had better discounts for families we wouldn't be trying other pizzas. But $700 buys a lot of extra pizzas. I hope we don't hate our new pizza.

AGREE 100%
I hope with this merger family pricing will be brought back in line to be more competitive with Song/Lab to bring back loyal customers that have been lost. My guess is it will happen.

It seems as though the owners want to get the word out via press conferences, media attention, and Togg's website, but not on GP's website where season passes are actually purchased. It just seems shady to me that they are not forthcoming to GP customers who may not yet have purchased their pass. If one lives outside of CNY, they would likely not know about the acquisition of Togg, and reciprocal pass products.

Camp, I agree that they will need to align prices next year, or sell different pass products. Otherwise, why would anyone purchase a GP pass, when a Song pass will garner the same benefits, but at a much lower price for individuals and families. This season is a different story because all of this occurred late in the game.

Rj1972 wrote

shady

So the story is everywhere, press conference, interwebz, newspaper, but somehow not on the website. If that is a conspiracy, it is extremely lame in execution.

Rj1972 wrote

Camp, I agree that they will need to align prices next year, or sell different pass products.

I thought GP had already said this was happening. I could be wrong.

Is it accurate to say that if Togg peeps couldn't ski GP and GP peeps couldn't ski Togg you'd be ok with it?

GP's website has been updated numerous times since the acquisition of Togg, so I guess I am calling it a lame execution, or extremely poor marketing decision not to exploit the reciprocity on all websites. I've often questioned the competence of GP's sales and marketing department, but these guys aren't that inept. They are hoping that out-of-towners bite at the $599 GP pass versus the $345 Togg pass.

Keep in mind that if one lives in NYC, NJ, or PA, and they only ski GP, how would word of the acquisition reach them? This isn't exactly national news.

Rj1972 wrote

 They are hoping that out-of-towners bite at the $599 GP pass versus the $345 Togg pass.

 

Of course they are, who wouldn't??? Show me one good biz man who doesn't have a little bit of larceny in them and I'll show you and bad biz man. It's a ruthless world we live in so why should it be any different in Virgil NY?

Anyone in business knows that the cost of getting a NEW customer is 10 times the cost of keeping your EXISTING customer.  Your existing customers - especially the long-term, loyal ones - are GOLD.  When you give away for free to NEW customers the same product that your LOYAL customers have been paying for all along, you're going to alienate those loyal customers.

I don't think this is the answer:

Harvey wrote

Is it accurate to say that if Togg peeps couldn't ski GP and GP peeps couldn't ski Togg you'd be ok with it?

But it doesn't take much marketing creativity to come up with a plan that would have given everybody something without disenfranchising the existing, higher priced customers.  For example, passholders at each mountain this season get 2 or 3 free day tickets for checking out the other mountain, or pass reciprocity is honored between mountains Mon-Fri (non-holiday), ALONG WITH an announcement that a new pricing structure for dual-mountain passes is expected to be available for the NEXT season.  Throw in restructured family pass pricing for the win.

What I'm talking about here^^ is not a case of "Hindsight is 20-20."  It's basic business sense.