GREEK PEAK MOUNTAIN RESORT AND TOGGENBURG MOUNTAIN

Adk Jeff wrote

I wonder why they didn't make it a $150 upgrade (or whatever amount makes a Tog pass = Greek pass) for Tog passholders to add GP to their pass?

In both cases - the way it is, or your proposed solution - everyone would still be getting what they bought at the price they agreed to.

Maybe M+J are thinking, let's get the Tog peeps to try Greek and visa versa in year one. Seems like the "coulda" thinking is advocating higher ticket prices.

billyymc wrote

Hey camp - I'm not taking a shot at them. I do wonder what the benefit really is to Greek passholders though.

Does it make Greek (and Tog) more competitive with Song and Lab?  I guess that depends on how the pricing shakes out next season. If it does, I'd think the benefit to Greek skiers would be improved chances of survival and infrastructure upgrades in the long run.

pretty interesting... haven't ski'd tog and don't; know anything about it. I do know a few HLL families from 'cuse so it's definitely a viable market. ski my local hill with a family weekend or two at HLL sounds like a pretty sweet season to me... oh wait

billyymc wrote

Hey camp - I'm not taking a shot at them. I do wonder what the benefit really is to Greek passholders though.

 

I know you you weren't Billy.

Honestly other than the food/bev expertise I can't think of any benefit for a LOCAL season pass holder at GP. I know I'll never leave the Valley to go ski Togg, EVER. I can see where GP pass holders that live in the Cuse area will benefit. If they don;t have time to drive to GP they may go make a few turns at Togg. I'd also think that some Togg skiers would take the trip to GP for the best terrain in CNY. GP is open earlier and closes later during the season than Togg so I can see that happening.

billyymc wrote

 

Our family decided to leave Greek for this coming season after 15 or 16 years there as passholders. The Song/Lab combo for less than $1k for four of us was just too tempting considering we would have paid almost $1,700 for GP passes. So now we have a $700 budget to ski at Greek which buys a lot of day passes. We're effectively getting Greek, Song, and Lab for the price of season passes at Greek.

It was a no brainer for us, and I bet it will be for Togg families next year when they are faced with the Greek/Togg pricing structure which gives families almost no break.

If I had a family with kids (gawd that makes me sick to think about ) I'd do the exact same thing. Makes perfect sense. I'm guessing the pricing structure will be examined  to bring the two pair of hills closer in line. I still feel GP can expect to be paid a little more than Song/Lab simply because imo they have more to offer.

gorgonzola wrote

pretty interesting... haven't ski'd tog and don't; know anything about it.  

Ur not missing anything

Harvey wrote

billyymc wrote

Hey camp - I'm not taking a shot at them. I do wonder what the benefit really is to Greek passholders though.

Does it make Greek (and Tog) more competitive with Song and Lab?  I guess that depends on how the pricing shakes out next season. If it does, I'd think the benefit to Greek skiers would be improved chances of survival and infrastructure upgrades in the long run.

I concur

billyymc wrote

So I could go buy Tog season passes, today, and pay less than the cheapest price that was paid for 15-16 Greek passes back in April, and get access to Tog and Greek?

That's gotta thrill Greek's season passholders.

And next year when the Tog passholders have to ante up a higher price under Greek's pricing structure, they  will defect for Song/Lab. Especially families since Tog has decent family pricing, but Greek does not.

This was my first thought also. Here is what someone posted on syracuse.com:
"These guys are brilliant. Pass for Family of three at Tog, $825.00, same pass at Greek $1,884.00. So make the short drive to Tog and save over $1,000 and ski Greek which has much better terrain."

Big D wrote

Here is what someone posted on syracuse.com:
"These guys are brilliant. Pass for Family of three at Tog, $825.00, same pass at Greek $1,884.00. So make the short drive to Tog and save over $1,000 and ski Greek which has much better terrain."

The first rule in customer acquisition - whether it's done organically or through acquisition - is to neither piss off nor cannibalize your existing customer base.  If I were a GP passholder, I'd be both pissed and cannibalized.

Adk Jeff wrote

Big D wrote

Here is what someone posted on syracuse.com:
"These guys are brilliant. Pass for Family of three at Tog, $825.00, same pass at Greek $1,884.00. So make the short drive to Tog and save over $1,000 and ski Greek which has much better terrain."

The first rule in customer acquisition - whether it's done organically or through acquisition - is to neither piss off nor cannibalize your existing customer base.  If I were a GP passholder, I'd be both pissed and cannibalized.

Yep, not thrilled that I paid more than Togg season pass holders for the same product. I may make a trip to Togg for shits and grins, but I doubt it. If I were to head North, I'd probably rather ski Song than Toggenburg.

Maybe we GP pass holder should've rolled the dice and bought a Togg pass hoping Marc and John would buy Togg

I heard they're buying Stowe next year

Adk Jeff wrote

The first rule in customer acquisition - whether it's done organically or through acquisition - is to neither piss off nor cannibalize your existing customer base.  If I were a GP passholder, I'd be both pissed and cannibalized.

Well, they pissed off the Cascade Club members when they purchased GP by stating that they did not have the funds to honor those memberships as sold. Individuals spent $10K apiece on those memberships. Then M&J marketed the heck out of their "HIgh Speed Express Quad" lift. They also made snide comments about the HLL side of the valley, and focusing their efforts on the ski area, but we've had an eye sore of a wedding tent installed, upgrades to the Acorn, waterpark, and Edgewater Cafe. Then they sold most (but not all) of their remaining timeshares for pennies on the dollar. Even after all of this, they continue to market through Groupon.

I think folks are giving M&J far too much credit. These are small business owners who know very little about the ski or hospitality industries. Yes, they certainly do have courage for taking on an industry they do not know, with very little capital. They are relying on the folks that ran GP into the ground to run the existing business. How smart is that?

I truly do not understand what their rationale is for purchasing Togg. I hope it is was more than their egos getting in the way. Togg is not going to be a feeder to GP. These are both small regional ski areas, albeit GP has the best terrain in the region by far.When Vail purchased the midwest ski areas, they did so to feed their mega-resorts. GP is far from a mega-resort.

After this season it will be interesting to see what they do with season pass pricing. My thought is to keep GP passes higher than Togg's because the two mountains are night and day. Next season they could offer Togg passholders an option to upgrade to a GP pass, which also would include privledges at Togg.

Mark my word that they used the $800K Cortland County Marketing grant towards the Togg deal, as every article I've read about the purchase discusses the effects the purchase will have on increasing traffic to GP and Cortland County.

campgottagopee wrote

I heard they're buying Stowe next year

Sweet, are they getting Stowe for pennies on the dollar too? I'm out to ski as cheaply as possible. If you guys are happy paying more to support your favorite hill, or because the owners are nice guys and your buddies, that's fine, just don't expect everyone to feel the same way you do.

Cornhead wrote

campgottagopee wrote

I heard they're buying Stowe next year

Sweet, are they getting Stowe for pennies on the dollar too?  

Not sure. Heard it's a public auction so all are invited to attend and place a bid.

Wait who is paying more?  I missed that part.

There is absolutely no mention of the acquisition on GP's website--only Togg's website. Maybe that's intentional so as not to encourage GP passholders from purchasing Togg passes this season. Either that, or the GP IT and Marketing folks are the behind eight ball, as usual.

If they were trying to keep it a secret they really blew it with that press conference.

I totally missed the press conference.

All of this is just so funny.

We published this at 11:01 yesterday:

http://nyskiblog.com/greek-peak-buys-toggenburg/

Harvey wrote

We published this at 11:01 yesterday:

http://nyskiblog.com/greek-peak-buys-toggenburg/

Nice job on the article.