Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

x10003q wrote

1. The size of the chair does not always mean big increase in capacity. The Hunter 6 pack handles 2600/hr. The Hunter quad handled around 2400. The number of chairs and the line speed are part of the equation.

2. There are very few lines at Gore in its current configuration. Sometimes the gondola will have a short line during holidays mid morning and right after lunch. If both lifts are running there is almost never a line on the triple.

3. You need to ski Gore before more often. Then you will not make inaccurate statements (with such conviction) that the Gondola and the HS3 are unable to handle the volume of sliders currently are Gore. This is a false impression. Lines are very rare on those 2 lifts.

I never said that the gondola and the HS3 can't handle the volume of skiers currently at Gore.  I said that the trails on the Gore front side can handle more people than they do, and the extra lift capacity would be great, especially on the holidays.  

The gondola is rated for a capacity of 2,400 pph when it is running at its design speed of 1,110 fpm.  I was told by one of the lift ops that it is normally run at 850 fpm.  At this speed, it has a capacity of just over 1,800 pph.  The triple was originally designed to have a capacity of 2,100 pph, but they removed every 4th chair, so it has a capacity of 1,575 pph.  The capacity of these 2 lifts combined is about 3,450 pph at best.  A 6-pack can handle up to 3,600 pph, so it would have more capacity than both these lifts combined.  

I don't see how anyone could be against getting rid of an old unreliable lift for a newer more reliable one with a higher speed and capacity.  With a speed of 1,000 fpm you could be at the Saddle in just over 7 minutes.  The HS3  takes almost 9 minutes with a speed of 825 fpm.  With a new lift you could get some amazing runs on Showcase, Twister, Quicksilver, and Sunway with no lines and a quick ride.  I can hardy wait to ride the new lift when it goes in and take laps off of it.

Upgrading the ADK Express would be great addition to Gore.  After this, they should upgrade the North Quad to high speed and use the North Quad to replace the High Peaks Chair.  If too much capacity was a concern, they could run it with less chairs than it currently has.  I think that these upgrades would improve Gore's experience greatly.

I think you got this skiing thing mixed up. You're not supposed to get excited about putting a lot more people on the trails you intend to ski at the same time

Kid

Love your enthusiasm but in the real world there is this little thing called money.  Orda does not have any which why they fix really old lifts instead of replace them.

No way this happens

snoloco wrote

I never said that the gondola and the HS3 can't handle the volume of skiers currently at Gore.  I said that the trails on the Gore front side can handle more people than they do, and the extra lift capacity would be great, especially on the holidays.  

The gondola is rated for a capacity of 2,400 pph when it is running at its design speed of 1,110 fpm.  I was told by one of the lift ops that it is normally run at 850 fpm.  At this speed, it has a capacity of just over 1,800 pph.  The triple was originally designed to have a capacity of 2,100 pph, but they removed every 4th chair, so it has a capacity of 1,575 pph.  The capacity of these 2 lifts combined is about 3,450 pph at best.  A 6-pack can handle up to 3,600 pph, so it would have more capacity than both these lifts combined.  

I don't see how anyone could be against getting rid of an old unreliable lift for a newer more reliable one with a higher speed and capacity.  With a speed of 1,000 fpm you could be at the Saddle in just over 7 minutes.  The HS3  takes almost 9 minutes with a speed of 825 fpm.  With a new lift you could get some amazing runs on Showcase, Twister, Quicksilver, and Sunway with no lines and a quick ride.  I can hardy wait to ride the new lift when it goes in and take laps off of it.

Upgrading the ADK Express would be great addition to Gore.  After this, they should upgrade the North Quad to high speed and use the North Quad to replace the High Peaks Chair.  If too much capacity was a concern, they could run it with less chairs than it currently has.  I think that these upgrades would improve Gore's experience greatly.

Your first statement contradicts itself. If the current lifts leave the main face of Gore unused, a higher capacity lift will not increase the usage. The current lifts are not a bottle neck for getting people up the mountain.

Who is against replacing a 30 year old HS lift? Nobody I know.

The mountain has more capacity than people. The only reason to install a 6 is if there is a study that shows it will reduce the number of wind holds. A HSQ will more than fulfill the needs of the base area. It will cost less also.

You must apply all those numbers above to the situation. The clearly underutilized Gore gondola can run at 1100 fpm, but runs at a similar speed as the HS3. What makes you think Gore will run a new high speed lift will run at 1100 when the gondola does not run at 1100? If the new HSQ runs at 850 your theory of extra runs goes right out the window.

What's the cost difference between a 6-pack and a HSQ?

Why does the gondi run at 850 fpm rather than 1100?

Clearly the Adk Express needs to be replaced, and needs to be replaced with some form of high speed lift.  A 6-pack  would seem overkill for a lift whose only purpose is to absorb extra traffic on weekends and holidays, and to serve as a back-up if the gondi goes down, but if the cost diff is negligible (i.e. 10% cost diff), why not?  Beyond that, the only lift changes I'd like to see are extending the High Peaks chair to the top of Rumor (seems likely) and replacement of the Top Ridge triple with a HSQ (probably never happen).
And the 2-stage gondi that's going to run from the ski bowl base to the BRQ base to the main base

Adk Jeff wrote

And the 2-stage gondi that's going to run from the ski bowl base to the BRQ base to the main base 

Right! Just as soon as the Ski Bowl Village is completed.

x10003q wrote

You must apply all those numbers above to the situation. The clearly underutilized Gore gondola can run at 1100 fpm, but runs at a similar speed as the HS3. What makes you think Gore will run a new high speed lift will run at 1100 when the gondola does not run at 1100? If the new HSQ runs at 850 your theory of extra runs goes right out the window.

Burnt Ridge runs at or close to 1,000 so the new HSQ or HSS will probably run at that speed too.  The gondola is not underutilized at all.  It gets plenty of use and customers.  They just don't run it at full speed for some reason.  It is probably due to loading issues.  The cars would move a lot faster in the stations if it ran at full speed and people may not have enough time to load.  This is an issue on many gondolas.

If capacity is not needed I don't understand the assumption a HSQ will go in there.  Orda seems way more likely to go the fixed grip replacement route to me.  That fixed triple they put int the snow bowl seem a likely candidate to be done again

Coach Z wrote

If capacity is not needed I don't understand the assumption a HSQ will go in there.  Orda seems way more likely to go the fixed grip replacement route to me.  That fixed triple they put int the snow bowl seem a likely candidate to be done again

A fixed grip to replace the HS3.  Not gonna happen.  That would be a 15 minute ride at best.  Then you would see very long lines at the gondola since it would be the only high speed way out of the base area.  An HSQ or HSS is what they are going to get.  The capacity of an HSQ would probably be fine, but 6-pack chairs might be able to handle the wind better.

Coach Z wrote

If capacity is not needed I don't understand the assumption a HSQ will go in there.  Orda seems way more likely to go the fixed grip replacement route to me.  That fixed triple they put int the snow bowl seem a likely candidate to be done again

There is no way they are going back to a 17+ minute lift ride. Nobody would ride it. Gore has long discarded the wool ponchos. I am surprised that you don't know that this HS lift supports all the racing on Twister.

Last year a lot of work went into this project including spec'ing a lift. The one considered was a duplicate of the Burnt Ridge Quad.  Yes it didn't happen, and it was likely a money issue, but the lift in consideration was a HSQ.

Hey it could happen. A fixed grip in that spot is better than a broken adk express.

But if it does I'll be surprised.

Harvey wrote

Last year a lot of work went into this project including spec'ing a lift. The one considered was a duplicate of the Burnt Ridge Quad.  Yes it didn't happen, and it was likely a money issue, but the lift in consideration was a HSQ.

Hey it could happen. A fixed grip in that spot is better than a broken adk express.

But if it does I'll be surprised.

I have heard the order has been in and work will start right after closing. I also heard the reason it did not go in last year was timing, they under estimated the time it would take. However I find that a little hard to believe as they have the experience of the BRQ, but maybe there was a backlog at LP and they couldn't deliver. We will really know when the wrecking crew comes in to remove the old lift.

Snoloco - don't let the curmudgeons damp your stoke.

That new Hudson a Chair moves pretty good and a twin of that chair would not be a 17 min ride.  

Whitefaces race chair is a 38 year old fixed grip double

Harvey wrote

Hey it could happen. A fixed grip in that spot is better than a broken adk express.

Is the old lady broken again? Have not been there in quite awhile. If it is still running and repairable I can't imagine them pulling it out and taking a step backwards to a fixed grip.

As far as the race chair at WF, that comparison is just plain stupid. There are several other lifts that serve that same terrain and don't serve the base area as well, there is basically no competition for that lift like there is at Gore & the ADK express when the racers have twister.

Coach Z wrote

That new Hudson a Chair moves pretty good and a twin of that chair would not be a 17 min ride.

Really? Because green skiers never have problems loading and unloading fixed grip chairs causing the lift to stop? You were recently complaining about all the beginners causing the Belleayre fixed grip lifts to frequently stop when your son was racing at Belleayre.

Coach Z wrote

Whitefaces race chair is a 38 year old fixed grip double

You are comparing one of the main lifts at Gore to the race chair? Since you think a 7000 foot fixed grip lift is no big deal, how about ORDA moves the Facelift down to Gore and they could replace The Facelift with a FGQ?  

If any of you have ever ridden the Summit Local at Mount Snow, that is the kind of lift you would be getting if the ADK Express was a fixed grip.  No one ever rode it at Mount Snow since it took 15 minutes to ride.    You also got to see the Grand Summit Express speeding by you the whole way up which sucked.  The line you waited in to avoid it was far longer than any line Gore will ever have and people still never rode it.  I would much rather wait 5 minutes at the gondola and have a relatively fast ride than sit on a long, slow, cold chair for 15+ minutes.  I would never want to see a 7,000 foot fixed grip installed to replace a detach.

Snoloco-

Your posts on this thread and others on the NYSB have always been enjoyable and full of the "What if?"  I notice from your posting that you track each ski visit, most excellent.  However, you apparently have not visited Gore this long, cold sliding season, perhaps you should before the High Peaks snowpack fuels the Hudson Gorge to a roar this rafting season.  What if you could do both in one weekend?

Just sayin'.  All the best.

I'm pretty confused as the lift in question certainly does not seem like one of the main lifts to me.  It's a supplemental lift at best since the Gondi serves the same pod.   You described it as the race lift and that is pretty much how I see it too.

WF has one Gondi and one HSQ.  So does Gore.  I don't really see that you need another there.  The way it works in orda is we get a lift and then you do.  Since they elected to fix and not replace the little WF I would be happy if I were you to get a new lift of any type and not a just a repair like we got of a 40+ year old lift.

It would seem the summit area of Gore is more ripe for a HSQ anyways.

Coach Z wrote

I'm pretty confused as the lift in question certainly does not seem like one of the main lifts to me.  It's a supplemental lift at best since the Gondi serves the same pod.   You described it as the race lift and that is pretty much how I see it too.

You could also argue that the Gondi at WF serves the same terrain as the Face Lift. I don't think you would consider the Face Lift as a secondary lift would you? The ADK express is much more than a race lift - as was obvious from the period it was broken down in January. On weekends and holidays, the ADK express balances out the load of people and probably sees as much traffic as any lift on the mountain other than the gondola. I would much rather ride it than the gondola unless it is bitter cold and/or windy or I want to access terrain that is easier to get to using the gondola. Much of the blue/green terrain on the mountain is served directly by the ADK express. It would not make any sense to replace a 2168m long lift with a fixed grip. Imagine how long the lift ride would be? Almost double the time it takes to get to the top of lookout (1345m) or the summit (1420m)? 

Coach Z wrote

WF has one Gondi and one HSQ.  So does Gore.  I don't really see that you need another there.  The way it works in orda is we get a lift and then you do.  Since they elected to fix and not replace the little WF I would be happy if I were you to get a new lift of any type and not a just a repair like we got of a 40+ year old lift.

Haven't you read Sibling Rivalry? Its not always about what's fair and/or equal:) I keep trying to explain this to my kids but for some reason they don't get it. Besides Gore has almost twice the acreage. If everything was equal based on acreage we would have another gondola to run from the ski bowl to the base area

Coach Z wrote

It would seem the summit area of Gore is more ripe for a HSQ anyways.

The summit lift is only 840m long. I don't think a high speed lift is needed there. I don't think a HS lift would make sense for the high peaks chair replacement (1000m) or in place of the topridge triple (800m). IMO A HSQ would be nice on the north side (if anyone is listening:) but it too is only 1169m. It feels longer cause it runs slower and the pitch is gradual.

A copy of the BRQ as a replacement for the ADK express would be perfect. I think a six pack would be overkill. imagine six people trying to clear the lift exit at the top (assuming same positioning). Yikes.

Coach Z wrote

WF has one Gondi and one HSQ.  So does Gore.

Coach Gore has 2 HSQs, Adk Ex and BRQ.

Coach Z wrote

It would seem the summit area of Gore is more ripe for a HSQ anyways.

IMO the Gore base area needs a HS lift much more than Straightbrook.

Sounds like some high ranking employees are announcing this like it's a done deal.