Gore Mountain Adirondack Express Replacement.

tuck@hide wrote

remember that the speed is regulated by N,Y,State, also Rumor had nothing to do with the shorting of lift 6 an it needs to go back to the top, just to insure that you can ski the top if lift 7 goes down again

Welcome to the forums tuck@hide.

Darkside Shaman wrote

Obviously you never rode The Summit lift when it was there, as there was no skating as it dropped you off very close to where the warming hut is up on the hill. It was great as you could ski the WHOLE summit (Darkside and Straightbrook)from that lift. Guess I'm just old and wise

PS: Now just for the record I am happy with lift 6 (high peaks chair) as it is, but if they were to replace it with another double ending up at the original spot, that would be the shit .

I agree with this.

 i always enjoyed seeing the mayhem that little icy pitch caused.

^^beat me to it SIAWOL


 Hillarious!

Post-Star is reporting that the new lift will cost $6.2 million.  Sounds a bit high to me, but what do I know?

Adk Jeff wrote

Post-Star is reporting that the new lift will cost $6.2 million.  Sounds a bit high to me, but what do I know?

I think a High Speed Detachable costs twice as much as a fixed grip and only lasts 1/2 as long, as there are so many more moving parts to wear out. Life expectancy of High speed is 20 years and fixed grip is 40 years.

Coach Z wrote

Where is all the money going to come from for these fantasies?

Did Vail buy Orda when I wasnt looking?

I saw first hand that Belleayre needs lift investment way more than either Gore or Whiteface.  I'll be shocked if they decide to replace a fixable lift.  It didn't happen with the LWF lift or even a new motor for the summit lift.  Orda ain't changing no matter how much you wish it or fantasize about it.

Anybody hear from Coach Z ?

I think the Burnt Ridge expansion was $7M, but that was all in.  Maybe 5.5M was the lift itself?

x10003q wrote

Coach Z wrote

Orda ain't changing no matter how much you wish it or fantasize about it.

X I'm callin you out bro.

Seriously ORDA hasn't changed. They have consistently invested in Gore infrastructure and terrain over the last decade.

x10003q wrote

Coach Z wrote

Where is all the money going to come from for these fantasies?

Did Vail buy Orda when I wasnt looking?

I saw first hand that Belleayre needs lift investment way more than either Gore or Whiteface.  I'll be shocked if they decide to replace a fixable lift.  It didn't happen with the LWF lift or even a new motor for the summit lift.  Orda ain't changing no matter how much you wish it or fantasize about it.

Anybody hear from Coach Z ?

Was thinking the same thing. How could Gore possibly get a new lift before WF - it just isn't done. Next thing you know Bell may get an improvement and poor old WF will be sucking hind tit.

I'm certainly surprised and pleased that orda chose to make this investment.  It's good for all all of us that NYS is investing the ski areas. The norm has certainly been to fix rather than replace so this is a great precedent they are setting.  

Whiteface is basically built out with only the final trail of lookout to come and no truly new lifts on the development plan.  Eventually the kids kampus chair will need to be replaced as it's ancient and a HSQ would be a great improvement there.  There has been some talk of eventually moving the adult beginner programs over there but that chair is a limiting factor I would think from making that happen.

The Freeway racer chair has been repaired many times and would think that is the way that continues.  Nysef pays orda to run and maintain that chair.

Bellerye needs lift investment as well.  They could also use some padding on their chairs as they are not padded at all.  Noted how the marketing person said the new chair at Gore would be cushy.

Confession time Coach.  Pretty much the entire Gore community knew this was a done deal for a long time. Mgmt was playing it close to the vest because it was going to happen last year and fell through at the last minute.  You're a good sport.



(via mobile)

I think that the next Whiteface lift replacement would be a 6-pack for Facelift and move the Facelift to the summit.  The Summit Quad could be used to replace the Kids Kampus lift.

That will never happen.  Unless there are wind issues the Facelift dies not need the extra capacity and it would run even worse in the wind as a 6 pack

The summit would run much less often if a HSQ.  The ice on the grips would be an issue.  It's fine as a fixed grip and it seldom has a line more than a min

 A fixed quad would not help kids kampus.  It needs a HSQ so it can run slow enough for beginners and little kids can get on it.  My wife commented that a high speed triple would be better since with the little kids one instructor can only handle two at a time.  Maybe they can moved the Adk to replace that chair at WF.

The time that Facelift does need the capacity is when the gondola is on wind hold.  3,600 people an hour will help a lot if the gondola is down and shorten lines even more when it is runnning.

The Summit Quad is the longest fixed grip on the mountain.  No place that I know of has a 4,800 foot long fixed grip that isn't in the chopping block.  If Breckenridge can run the Imperial Superchair at 12,800 feet, then Whiteface can run an HSQ that is at 4,400 feet.  I have never been to Breck, so I can't say how many windholds it gets, but it is a practical operation.  Keep in mind that with a detach, you can take all the chairs off and run the cable at a low speed all night to prevent icing.  As of now, Facelift does not have a parking area for the chairs, but that is easily added.  I have never seen Whiteface take the gondola cabins off, but they can, and I am sure that they do if icing is a issue.  

The Kids Kampus lift is only 1,800 feet long.  The only place I know that has a detach that short is Park City.  I think that ORDA is much more likely to upgrade the Summit Quad to a detach than the Bunny Hutch triple.  They can always use a loading carpet at Bunny Hutch since it is a proven concept on fixed grip lifts.  This will reduce misloads and allow the lift to run at a higher speed.

The reason that ORDA fixed the LWF chair is because it is more economical to fix a fixed grip lift than to replace it.  This is because parts from different manufacturers are compatible with each other.  For example, the Little Whiteface chair has Hall grips and Doppelmayr sheaves.  Some fixed grips have different drive terminals.  On a detach, the grips must be used with a certain type of sheave.  A Poma grip must be used with Poma sheaves and the same is true about Doppelmayr.  For this reason, it is often better to replace the entire lift on a detach rather than trying to fix it.  That is what is being done at Gore this summer.  There were some parts worn out more than others, but its grips cannot be used with Poma of Doppelmayr sheaves and the terminal are only designed to take that type of grip.  This is why they are replacing the entire lift, because the extra cost of the new install will pay for itself in maintenance costs.

Have you ever been on the Facelift when the Gondi is on wind hold?  The mt funnels the wind typically either head on and it's brutal.  My son calls it the freeze your face off lift.  A 6 pack would go down under that condition quicker making things worse not better.  

They just fixed the summit so there is no way they replace it now. The difference between say Breck and WF is rain and ice.  That doesn't happen out west and few if any eastern lifts are as exposed at high elevation as this lift is.

They can and do take the cars off the Gondola.  First thing I do in the morning when I pull into the parking lot on a day of or after a storm is look and see if the cars are on and if it's moving.

Snoloco bro you got game. Have your people call my people.

BTW would love to hear from the people who gave me so much shit for publishing this story two years ago. The GM tells me he's replacing the oldest detachable in state with a state of the art unit. I should sit on that?  Come on "Huge News" where are you?

I have been on the Facelift when the gondola has been on windhold.  6-packs are best in crosswinds, but I have heard on another forum, that is skilifts.org, that also at Breck, the windiest chair is a 6-pack called the Independence Superchair.  Someone who is a regular there said that there are many days when the wind is howling and the Independence Superchair is running at full speed while the HSQ's on Peak 8 are running slow.  Someone who works at a mountain said that their six pack which is right next to an HSQ can operate in higher winds than the HSQ.

There is no way that they need an HSQ on Kids Kampus more than on the Summit, 1,800 foot long lift or a 4,800 foot long lift.  Sounds like a no-brainer which one to replace to me.

Like I said earlier, they can take the chairs off of any detach as long as there are parking rails and run the cable at a low speed all night to prevent ice buildup.  This can prevent many of the ice delays that the Summit Quad faces now.  I don't see how anyone could be against replacing a 4,800 foot long lift with a 10 minute ride with one that can get you up in just under 5.

Faster is not always better grasshopper
That is why MRG stays with a single chair.  It would get skied out quicker and you get the ride up to recover.  There is never long lines there so why replace a lift that just was fixed.

The kids triple has wicked long lines and stops a lot due to beginners falling.  A HSQ would really help or maybe adding another fixed grip quad that went higher to make the connection to the main side better.  If it went to the last corner of the Wilmington trail that would be perfect.

Coach, all good debate here.    Mtn mgmt can/should and likely does read this thread, here is my reponse to your  quote.

"A fixed quad would not help kids kampus.  It needs a HSQ so it can run slow enough for beginners and little kids can get on it.  My wife commented that a high speed triple would be better since with the little kids one instructor can only handle two at a time.  Maybe they can moved the Adk to replace that chair at WF"

At Liberty, and many other resorts, we are using a moving mat to load our fix grip quads. Our distances are short, 700 feet of vert. but the constant stopping for falling beginners (young and old) is what slows it down.   The moving mats are AWESOME and would surely be both cheaper and speed up the loading process.  They just have to dig a hole at the loading area, pour some concrete walls and install.        

Now if we could install a similar off loading mat at the top, that would solve the other 1/5th of slow/stoppign chair issues.        

snoloco wrote

I have been on the Facelift when the gondola has been on windhold.  6-packs are best in crosswinds, but I have heard on another forum, that is skilifts.org, that also at Breck, the windiest chair is a 6-pack called the Independence Superchair.  Someone who is a regular there said that there are many days when the wind is howling and the Independence Superchair is running at full speed while the HSQ's on Peak 8 are running slow.  Someone who works at a mountain said that their six pack which is right next to an HSQ can operate in higher winds than the HSQ.

There is no way that they need an HSQ on Kids Kampus more than on the Summit, 1,800 foot long lift or a 4,800 foot long lift.  Sounds like a no-brainer which one to replace to me.

Like I said earlier, they can take the chairs off of any detach as long as there are parking rails and run the cable at a low speed all night to prevent ice buildup.  This can prevent many of the ice delays that the Summit Quad faces now.  I don't see how anyone could be against replacing a 4,800 foot long lift with a 10 minute ride with one that can get you up in just under 5.

There is a little issue called money. Replacing an underused lift that seems to be operating normally is a poor use of limited NYS funds. When it is windy and icy up top there are even less people using the lift. A HS6 might be able to operate in worse weather, but now it becomes more of a financial decision to keep it closed as detachables are more expensive to operate vs fixed grip. One more reason not to go to a high speed lift in this location.

Coach Z is right about a detachable for the Kids Kampus. Loading and unloading are great for new skiers and boarders.
The lift would not have to run at higher speeds due to the short length.