How much ground clearance do you really need?

campgottagopee wrote

Sweet whip

Love the tool box in the side of the bed

Totally. I also really like the placement of the spare tire right above it.

At some point my girl and I plan to move south ----- the thought of all the old rides available to me at that point are mind blowing. I'll be like a kid in a candy store.

campgottagopee wrote

greif wrote

Someone (earlier) said he drove a Subie and has rented full size pickups and really liked the way the pickups drove in the snow (seemingly like the truck was better in the snow than the Subie).
My question: why is the truck better in the snow?

Physics. Blowing and drifting snow a full-size V8 PU will give you the weight and power needed to blast thru drifts. I'm a subie fan but there are times when they won't cut it. Plus chicks dig guys that drive trucks

We have a 4wd vehicle (Toyota Tacoma) and AWD vehicle (Subaru Impreza), equipped with four snow tires. Both are awesome in the snow but have their limits. The truck is older and you don't want to much over 60 mph in 4wd but the clearance is awesome. The Subie is unstoppable unless the snow is over about 8" deep, due to clearance issues.

I have used our work trucks on several occasions to make three-hour road trips in snowstorms. Full size Dodge and Chevy 4wd pickups, with snows. I used to curse the bastards blowing by me on the highway in pickups during snowstorms but once you drive one, you become one of those guys. Weight and power have a big effect, though winter tires seal the deal.

Bird knows

On my 3d Subie, this one an Outback.  To this date I've always run snow tires in the winter, I prefer Nokians.

First Subie, a Brighton, stripped down version of a Legacy wagon so cheap it didn't have a hook for your dry cleaning.  That sucker went everywhere.  Second Subie, a Legacy GT wagon with lower profile tires  Even running snow tires, I didn't trust it as much.  Although one time I left work in axle deep dry snow.

If I could justify owning a full size truck I'd check it out.  But 95% of the time I don't need the size.

Yep, Subies are wicked good. I took one back into our deer camp one year and all the guys laughed at me, right up until I took their asses up to the head of the swamp in it. To say the least they were all impressed and have shut the fuck up regarding Subie's . I needed, and did, prove a point.

I'll still always drive a full size PU

I have rethought a bit about what is better cause I think Camp knows what he is talking about but I still believe a AWD car are better in the snow on the roads than a pick up...especially if you don't put any weight in the back.  You sit higher in a pickup so can see better but I don't think you get better traction.  Most of it has to do with the tires but there is no way a pick up could keep up with me on a snowy road.  That front end would wash out or that rear end would come around way before me.  If it handles better on dry pavement it will handle better on slippery roads tires being equal.

I’ve rented a few cars on my trips out west, always driving in some amount of snowy weather.  Everything from a Chrysler 200 to a Silverado 1500.  Most confident I’ve felt in bad road conditions was definitely in the Silverado.  I’d consider getting one of those, or a Ram 1500....but the prices are high and wifey would never go for it.

I'm guessing the Pickup had a AT tire and the rental had AS on it.  Big difference

On a curvy road you would be correct imo. A truck would push hard going into the corner. Straight line going, or hwy driving is another story, and if there's 2 feet on the roads, see ya buddy!

Yeah, the 200 had shitty tires.  But even compared to various sized AWD SUVs and crossovers with proper M+S tires the pickup, I felt, handled snowy roads better.  

This one is for you, Ethan:



More here:

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2018/05/25/honda-surprises-with-wild-high-performance-compact-pickup.html

VW and Ford to collaborate on new VW Pick-Up truck.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2018/06/20/ford-volkswagen/717058002/

OP Here - I've been meaning to follow up on this thread for anyone who remembers / cares.  In my original post I posed the question of how much does ground clearance really matter when buying a ski car.  The reason I asked was because I was looking to buy a new car this past summer and wanted to optimize not just snow drivability but other things such as comfort, sportiness, and ease of roof box access.  In short I can say that I found out that Ground Clearance does matter after a big storm.

After doing my research I ended up buying the Golf Alltrack wagon in SEL trim.  It's a compact AWD wagon with just under 7 inches of ground clearance.  The SEL trim is quite premium for a mass market brand with all the bells and whistles (including 4 way lumbar support) and I got it for a solid $8K off MSRP - cause who the hell is buying wagons these days?  Being that it's only 60 inches high it's a lot easier for me at 5'6" to get into the cargo box on the roof.  I do still have to stand on the door sills, but it's way easier then my old 06 Ford Escape where I felt like I was rock climbing to get up there.  It's no race car but it's got a decent amount of pep, a fun DCT, and a solid stance in the corners.

In terms of winter driving 99% of the time it's been great.  I took off the stock 18" wheels and put on 16" with winter tires.  This has definitely helped with not only traction but has substantially softened up the ride, pot holes on the 18s are brutal.  The car has been confident in almost all conditions this winter. Except..

So my only negative experience was the big storm we had over MLK weekend.  We woke up in North Creek at the condo we rent and the wagon was BURIED.  The snow on the driveway was easily 18 inches and came up to the doorsill of the car.  I put it in reverse and slowly started backing out (slightly downhill) only to get stuck - wheels spinning and everything.  Over the next 15 minutes my wife give it gas while I dug out the tires and pushed, eventually we got it into the street and were good to go.  Now maybe a Subie with 8.7 inches of ground clearance wouldn't have made it out either, but maybe it would have.  I feel like my old escape had gotten out of situations like that, but maybe not.  So at the end of the day I'm still very happy with the car, but if you want to KNOW you'll never get stuck after a big dump - go with something that has the most ground clearance.  There are lift kits available for it, but it seems overkill for the once every few years we get a storm like that.

Picture of the car below.  She's pretty much one of a kind so if you see her in the parking lot of Gore or Killy DM me as I'm down to meet some NySkiBloggers.

That car looks sweet!

I say as a flatlander 8+" tops is the maximum practical amount.

If you live in the mountains and don't do a lot of highway, go for it.

Thanks!!

I think lower cars with lower centers of gravity actually do better on ice and packed snow.  Similar principle to skiing or walking on ice - you squat down.  

All that ground clearance is really only useful if you're going over jagged rocks or deep snow.

GreatAbyass,

Absolutely great looking setup, and the MQB platform is just a dream. I was long time 4WD SUV owner from my first car (Ford Explorer, Chevy Trailblazer, etc). In 2013 I bought a TDI Jetta(Golf) Sportwagen and put snow tires on it in the winter and never looked back. It absolutely blew me away with it performance in the snow.



Like you both have stated, the lower ground clearance was more than made up for with it's excellent tracking and handling due to it's lower center of gravity. Generally I could plow through 12in of standing snow in a pinch.

The VW Emmissions scandal happened and they offered to buy back my JSW for stupid money, which I took and bought a 2016 Mk7 Golf.

evantful wrote

The VW Emmissions scandal happened and they offered to buy back my JSW for stupid money, which I took and bought a 2016 Mk7 Golf.

I also cashed out my JSW TDI for the buyback money. It was almost impossible not to. I paid $4000 for a $26000 new car (post buyback and goodwill money) after putting over 80k on my TDI. I agree that the JSW TDI was superb with snows in the winter.

I went with less ground clearance on my Civic Hatch. I've grounded it once and had to dig out for trying to put it into an ill advised parking space that wasn't plowed yet. I miss the TDI torque much more than the extra inch or two of clearance.

Once you get onto a plowed road, ground clearance is pretty much irrelevant. Unless it is snowing +3" an hour and the plows are not making at least one pass per hour, it is essentially never going to be an issue.

If you have a long driveway and cannot trust the plow man or don't want to do it yourself, the ground clearance will help get you going. But once you are onto a plowed road, it is a non-issue.

riverc0il wrote

 

If you have a long driveway and cannot trust the plow man or don't want to do it yourself, the ground clearance will help get you going. But once you are onto a plowed road, it is a non-issue.

Unless you live on my road where the drifts are 3 to 4 feet high at times. At times meaning 3 or 4 times a month during the winter months.

Just came across this thread, but would have suggested a car like the VW wagon.  I'm a wagon fan and own two, and have never felt the need for more clearance.  If I drove a lot on rough dirt roads, that might be another story.  

When we were looking to replace our 2002 Saab 95 wagon, VW didn't make an AWD wagon, and they were in the midst of the diesel exhaust scandal.  We ended up buying a 2016 BMW 328d wagon (diesel), which has been absolutely spectacular in the snow, even with the stock, all-season Pirelli Cinturato tires.  

I had snow tires on the front-wheel drive Saab, and was never confident in the snow.  Not sure if it's the BMW's AWD system, the fact that the car is so well-balanced front to back, or that I went with the standard narrower wheels, but traction is never an issue, even in unplowed snow of up to a foot or so.  It wasn't a cheap car, but the diesel also gets over 40 MPG on the highway and mid-30s overall, it handles really well on pavement, has heated seats and steering wheel, and the cargo space is very flexible.  I have a Yakima box on top, which doesn't seem to hurt the mileage, and is great for skis.