How to Control Access to the Whiteface Slides?

https://vimeo.com/260870216

When the traverse in gets like this it seems inevitable that someone is coming out on a sled sporting a compound fracture.

I can recall two particular Gold days where injury prompted closure.  I’m sure they’ve happened on Silver days, too....but not any that I can personally recall.

So I came on here to find out what to expect condition wise tomorrow and instead have had to read through pages of arguments about how to ski the slides.

Definitely not very helpful.

Snowhunter wrote

So I came on here to find out what to expect condition wise tomorrow and instead have had to read through pages of arguments about how to ski the slides.

Definitely not very helpful.

C'mon, dude. People posted all sorts of pics and video from the weekend. It looked great, and the temps haven't got above freezing. It will still be great. And the forecast looks good.

You're thinking too much.

And the pics and videos were awesome.

Not all of us are of the same skiing abilities even though we may share the same passions.  I just wanted to know how the rest of the mountain is skiing.

I've seen plenty of threads on here get called out for going off topic.

I'm on my way!

Have a good day, I’m sure it will be great!  The one “bad” thing about the Slides is they keep me from skiing a lot of the rest of the hill.  Most of what I did ski was great on Sat/Sun.  Approach to Empire, Cloudspin to Niagara to Victoria, Lower Skyward, Easy Street, Upper Boreen, Boreen were all great.  Wilmington trail was perhaps not best situated to deal with what wind there was, but I only skied it as far as the upper entrance to SVG.  Same for top of Parons, a little wind blown, but I didn’t ski that very far.  Report back!

Best conditions in a decade.  Approaching 2001 levels!

Thanks!!!

Are you SnoreLoco's dad?

timbly wrote

So what do you all think the benefit of a beacon is? Do you think they make people take the hazards more seriously? Does the $300-$400 purchase price raise the access bar enough to weed out casual skiers?  I'm genuinely curious what the various perspectives are. Any idea what the response time of ski patrol is for the slides when they let go? Do you all dig pits and do your own assessment before heading down, or is patrol's assessment enough?

It's not the purchase price - you can get one under $300 that's for sure.  It's the knowledge that goes along with ownership.  I mean, it sorts out the folks who are unconsciously ignorant (they don't know what they don't know).

If rentals were available, that would mitigate the capital cost.

I don't know how capable the patrol is when it comes to an avalanche, let alone who, with avalanche knowledge and/or experience would be working on any given day should something slip (assessment is a different story).  So if I were the boss, I wouldn't hitch my horse to that wagon.

first off--conditions looked great this past week. good on ya' all you folks that got out to enjoy it!

I should think that when in Gold status, patrol would be make it very obvious what folks are getting into:
-obvious skull and crossbone signage at entrance (a la western backcountry gates)
-signage warning of thin cover, rocks, moguls, ice, etc.
-limit 5-6 people at a time to enter---say, every 5-10 minutes to spread 'em out
-preach to those waiting in line what to expect and that if they're not confident skiing (insert some WF trail name here) without stopping, then this isn't the area for you
-Hiking is required
-use some objective tool to thin the herd...must be as tall as this lollipop, for example

it's not a perfect system...and some people might feel slighted, but it makes it clear to folks. Maybe they were already doing these things, I don't know--wasn't there.

Some folks don't like waiting in line. That will thin it out.

Some folks don't like having to hike up--too much work.

A lot of folks see/hear what to expect on a trail and they pick another option that better suits them. Even if it's a "check the box to say you've done it" trail. If you can fill people with enough doubt about whether to ski it, they'll opt out and reduce some of the traffic that might be in over their heads in the slides. Not everybody, but some.

The lollipop might seem a little arbitrary, but it probably keeps out a huge chunk of kids that either aren't TRULY ready or aren't supervised. I've got an 11 year old--he's tall but I suppose even he might not pass the lollipop test. And he can absolutely rip--on and off trail. I'd be bummed if they didn't let him through and I'd attempt to plead my case privately, but if that's the standard, that's the standard. He's only getting taller and he'll have another chance at it someday.

Just my 2 cents off topic.

tjf1967 wrote

I don't think so. Anyone serious enough wanting to ski the slides will get a beacon.
If you have a beacon probability says you can ski.

Having a beacon only means you bought a beacon. Nothing else.

Yeah, if they went beacon only there may be some “less skilled” skiers who end up buying a beacon and getting into the Slides, but it will probably be a pretty small percentage of the overall number of “less skilled” skiers who get in there on a typical Gold day.  I also happen to agree with TJ that the average casual skier isn’t going to be rushing out to buy a beacon for a shot at an elusive Slides day.  So, regardless of whether owning a beacon represents anything related to skill level.....the mission of controlling access is accomplished.  

It would be pretty easy to go that route.....but marketing, public relations, customer satisfaction and other factors are obviously keeping management from doing that.

I disagree.

tjf1967 wrote

I disagree.

+1

I disagree too

ScottyJack wrote

tjf1967 wrote

I disagree.

+1

I disagree too

Me too

Beacon probe and shovel 100% of the time is way to go.

Here’s another idea.  Also make those that want to ski the slides have a uphill pass for Whiteface.  You certainly need to go uphill to get in there.  It’s pretty cheap but would greatly thin the crowd and dr8 e s9me revenue.

I just ordered my boy a beacon for his birthday.  Now that we have two we both are going to practice how to use it.

Bury a pack with the beacon in it, practice search, probe & dig. You need all 3 skills

ScottyJack wrote

Best conditions in a decade.  Approaching 2001 levels!

It’s good but I’m not on board with Comparing to 2001.  We got 17 feet that March and 5 feet in April that year.    Every waterfall and ice flowin the Slides was completely buried and we skied the Slides until closing day.  There was another year maybe 2007 (not sure) that was better than this one and 2011 for sure was better.

x10003q wrote

tjf1967 wrote

I don't think so. Anyone serious enough wanting to ski the slides will get a beacon.
If you have a beacon probability says you can ski.

Having a beacon only means you bought a beacon. Nothing else.

We can break this discussion out into another thread if you want, Harv, but I agree with x.

I'm not sure the beacon check is the best method for preventing your "undesirables" from skiing the slides. Basically, instead of having a bunch of a-holes in way over their heads, you'll have slightly less a-holes, but they'll be a-holes in a higher income bracket who had the foresight to buy a beacon on the way up.

I don't think the "have a Level 3 instructor as a judge" thing will work either. Inevitably, a guy will be rejected, then he'll be riding the lift, and he'll see someone that he thinks is worse than him, and he'll complain about bias (there will be bias, too. I'd be more inclined to allow a less-skilled skier who exhibits control over a guy who skis way too fast for his ability).

I guess the height requirement is okay (works for amusement parks, why not for the Slides?)

Really, I think we just have to accept that there are gonna be injuries in there. That being said, the best solution might not be preventative. Whiteface should think about making an earlier exit or an easier exit (other than Slide Out). It might require a lot of engineering, because there isn't exactly an easy spot to exit, but I don't know if the answer is just to shuffle the types of mediocre skiers you have in there ("instead of just a wild mass of kooks, we'll have a slightly less wild mass of rich, tall kooks!").

I think that making the entrance harder might be an option. Make it look super intimidating, build a knife edge traverse, make people take their skis off and put them on on a super steep slope... All that before they even get to where the current entrance is. Basically move the entrance down Parron's a ways and set up an obstacle course along that top traverse back towards the top of the lift. Make it easy enough for locals & experts, but a tremendous pain in the ass for the intermediate skier. That'll separate the wheat from the chaff.

I agree with x as well, owning a violin doesn’t mean you can play it let alone play it well. Taking an Avi 1 course is like taking one Violin lesson, you kind of know how it works but you are not competent, it takes lots of practice and I applaud Coach for taking the time