Idea To Keep Whiteface Open Later in the Spring

MikeK wrote

Despite what anyone may think, nukes and all, I'm not offended and I'm not at all upset with Mr. Drifter.  I still don't necessarily trust his judgement on the matter, but as far as WF is concerned the uphill policy is what it is, at least during ski season and I knew about that before I ever posed any questions - I made that abundantly clear before I posted the link.  

Outside of that, which is really what I'm interested in, we've still not had a ruling.  Like I said, I have no problem buying a ticket during regular season operation, it's the off season poaching that is of concern to the die hards.

Anyway - it's also abundantly clear that no one here really knows for sure, so despite the last few rambling posts, I've decided to take my question to someone who can answer with some certainty.  I'm debating whether I should post the response I get.  I will have no problem identifying the source.  If it's a matter of law and the source is certain of the rules, there should be no issue providing credentials.

I actually have trouble understanding what you are writing.  Not sure if its the run-on sentences or the over usage of punctuation.  In any event..the uphill ticket is for during operating hours...which in winter is basically 24/7.  When the mountain is not open and before the season starts or after its ended, an uphill ticket is not required. The uphill ticket is designed to ensure that all uphill traffic knows the rules and has signed off on the policy to protect everybody.  There was no specific incident, all mountains are now doing this.  its standard with the increase and interest in AT gear. Is that what you are asking?  Maybe try to read back your posts and cut out some words occasionally.

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

 
Anyway - it's also abundantly clear that no one here really knows for sure

I just think nobody cares, or at least I know I don't.

That's fine.  Again, no one is forcing you read or post anything.

I get that.

What I don't get is why you want to know about skiing trails at a ski area after it's closed. Just go ski it until someone tells you not to. That's what I would do, or have done in the past.

I guess I'm different...

Same goes for ATVs on hiking trails in the forest preserve I guess?  Just do it until someone tells you not to?

Now if someone told me I couldn't, and I believed it was my right and I wanted to go to court over it, I would be willfully disobedient.  It's a peaceful and sometimes effective form of protest.

I read this story and I believe this guy had every right to ski uphill:

http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/top_stories/police-stymie-skier-s-ascent/article_b0f87050-81a5-5458-845b-80cdc1cd9709.html

It's becoming a sad state of affairs in this country when we lose rights to our public lands.

Ha, I was just composing this.....

Mike strikes me as the kind of guy that wants to be prepared to deal with whomever might tell him not to ski it.  Armed with proper knowledge of the law he will know it's his right under the law (assuming he determines that is the case) to refuse to leave.

When Mike won't leave, not knowing or caring what the law is the guy who asked him to leave will eventually call the coppers.  When the heat shows up Mike will explain the law to them.  Not knowing or caring what the law is the police will again ask Mike to leave.  Knowing the law is on his side (assuming he determines that is the case) Mike will refuse to leave.

You know what happens next......things get a bit heated, and the fuzz throws Mike's ass in jail.  While he might be spot on regarding his rights under the law to have stayed and skied the terrain, the judge eventually finds him guilty of the disorderly conduct charge he gets slapped with!

MikeK wrote

 

I guess I'm different...
 

Yes

MikeK wrote

 

Same goes for ATVs on hiking trails in the forest preserve I guess?  Just do it until someone tells you not to?

 

Yes
 

 

MikeK wrote

 

Now if someone told me I couldn't, and I believed it was my right and I wanted to go to court over it, I would be willfully disobedient.  It's a peaceful and sometimes effective form of protest.

 

Again, don't ask and nobody will tell you not to. Easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask permission.

MikeK wrote

 

I read this story and I believe this guy had every right to ski uphill:

http://www.jhnewsandguide.com/news/top_stories/police-stymie-skier-s-ascent/article_b0f87050-81a5-5458-845b-80cdc1cd9709.html

 

Didn't read it but I'm sure you're right.

MikeK wrote

 

It's becoming a sad state of affairs in this country when we lose rights to our public lands.

Agree

Pants wrote

MikeK wrote

Despite what anyone may think, nukes and all, I'm not offended and I'm not at all upset with Mr. Drifter.  I still don't necessarily trust his judgement on the matter, but as far as WF is concerned the uphill policy is what it is, at least during ski season and I knew about that before I ever posed any questions - I made that abundantly clear before I posted the link.  

Outside of that, which is really what I'm interested in, we've still not had a ruling.  Like I said, I have no problem buying a ticket during regular season operation, it's the off season poaching that is of concern to the die hards.

Anyway - it's also abundantly clear that no one here really knows for sure, so despite the last few rambling posts, I've decided to take my question to someone who can answer with some certainty.  I'm debating whether I should post the response I get.  I will have no problem identifying the source.  If it's a matter of law and the source is certain of the rules, there should be no issue providing credentials.

I actually have trouble understanding what you are writing.  Not sure if its the run-on sentences or the over usage of punctuation.  In any event..the uphill ticket is for during operating hours...which in winter is basically 24/7.  When the mountain is not open and before the season starts or after its ended, an uphill ticket is not required. The uphill ticket is designed to ensure that all uphill traffic knows the rules and has signed off on the policy to protect everybody.  There was no specific incident, all mountains are now doing this.  its standard with the increase and interest in AT gear. Is that what you are asking?  Maybe try to read back your posts and cut out some words occasionally.

Hi Pants!!

Skidds wrote

Ha, I was just composing this.....

Mike strikes me as the kind of guy that wants to be prepared to deal with whomever might tell him not to ski it.  Armed with proper knowledge of the law he will know it's his right under the law (assuming he determines that is the case) to refuse to leave.

When Mike won't leave, not knowing or caring what the law is the guy who asked him to leave will eventually call the coppers.  When the heat shows up Mike will explain the law to them.  Not knowing or caring what the law is the police will again ask Mike to leave.  Knowing the law is on his side (assuming he determines that is the case) Mike will refuse to leave.

You know what happens next......things get a bit heated, and the fuzz throws Mike's ass in jail.  While he might be spot on regarding his rights under the law to have stayed and skied the terrain, the judge eventually finds him guilty of the disorderly conduct charge he gets slapped with!

Skidds,

Read the story about the old guy in Jackson Hole.  I'd do the same thing he did.

And yeah I'd get thrown in jail, most likely.  And then eventually my charges would be dropped.  I wouldn't argue with the fuzz... been there, never done it.

And I'd do it again...

And I've done a bit more research... It seems, that even if a place like WF can restrict uphill travel to morning and after hours, that only applies to skinning directly up a ski trail.  One could, it appears, legally, go any other way along state land i.e. the toll road, and ski back down.  It appears the restrictions on uphill travel are only strong enough to restrict skinning directly on groomed trails.   As for a source, look at the USDA National Forest policy... I'd assume this precedent would hold true for NY if brought to court.

So in essence, I think one could hike up through Siamese Ponds and ski down Gore legally even when the lifts are running.

Also the reason they are able to get away with this restriction on public land in some cases is due to the fact that traffic is going up and down.  Off season, one could conclude that it would be perfectly legal to skin up a ski trail.

Pants wrote

I actually have trouble understanding what you are writing.  Not sure if its the run-on sentences or the over usage of punctuation.  In any event..the uphill ticket is for during operating hours...which in winter is basically 24/7.  When the mountain is not open and before the season starts or after its ended, an uphill ticket is not required. The uphill ticket is designed to ensure that all uphill traffic knows the rules and has signed off on the policy to protect everybody.  There was no specific incident, all mountains are now doing this.  its standard with the increase and interest in AT gear. Is that what you are asking?  Maybe try to read back your posts and cut out some words occasionally.

That post did suck... yours is not perfect either but lets not play that game.

Not all mountains have implemented this, or it wouldn't be a question still.  From what I can tell it's about 50/50.

Whiteface was never a question... unless you consider not skinning directly up the ski trails, in which case I don't think they can legally restrict you.

And as far requiring an uphill pass off season.  I thought that was pretty obvious.  I think you got lost in the commas.  The question is whether it is legal to poach when the lifts stop running in the spring?

It doesn't appear that there is any reason for this not to be legal as long as the ski area is on public land and was the best solution to skiing WF longer in the spring.

MikeK wrote

Is it legal to ski at Whiteface and Gore after they shut the lifts down?

I would think so because it is state owned land, but I've never seen pictures from these mountians, and I have many others in NE.

At any rate, if you want to keep skiing - get some AT bindings and some skins and don't let the Gondi hold you back!

Watch out for those commas!

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

I can't believe I'm still here, but anyways... Everybody I know who skins in the morning love the fact that a set of rules was clearly defined so there would be no more misunderstanding between ski patrol and people skinning. Its all before the lifts start or after they stop so it really is not the same as what you were talking about IMO.

Naming names in a public forum is not cool in my book and I won't do it. To me it is a betrayal of trust.

I did needle you first, but it was because I thought you were bullying "The Kid". You said you were sorry if what you wrote was taken wrong, plus Sno didn't really seem to care so I was off base.

All that said, please everyone don't mention me in this thread again. Think whatever you want its your business...I just want out. On the social Darwinism evolutionary  path I just want to turn around and go back in the ocean.

Very understandable.

 " please everyone don't mention me in this thread again "  

Kinda like in the Eastwood movies, High Plains Drifter, et al....." He who has no name. "

For a few dollars more, eh Blondie ?

ml242 wrote

Another interesting factoid regarding discussions about Whiteface is that they all end up like this:

There's a whole lot of truth in that ! SkiAdk was the same way.