Idea To Keep Whiteface Open Later in the Spring

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PeeTex wrote

I have skied Gore post season with employees of the mountain, but does that make it legal?
I am sure WF would be pesky about skiing the slides no matter how you got there if they were closed. The issue with the slides, just like most slides in the Dacks is avi danger and since they would feel obliged to send patrol out if something went wrong they would want to keep people off. But if you are going to hike the road, why not hike to many of the other places in the Dacks? They make a much nicer hike.

I'm not sure but I'd assume someone would say something to you if it wasn't.  I'm sure they would at a private resort.

I wasn't talking about skiing the slides when closed - and in the off season, it would be up to the skier to determine the skiability of the slides, just as it would be if one were to go ski the slides on Wright.

I wouldn't hike the road either.  I'd ski up it, and most likely ski down it.  It would be a nice ski on the right day I'm sure - I'd like to do it sometime.  I've never been there when conditions have been favorable to do so though.  I'm sure one of these years I'll catch a nice bluebird day where it would be worth it get up on top of the face.  Again my motivation would be different than some.  I'd ski it for the view and that fact that I can ski up it on light gear and not have to snowshoe - I much prefer skiing to snowshoeing.

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PeeTex wrote

I am sure WF would be pesky about skiing the slides no matter how you got there if they were closed.

Can't swear to this, but I'm fairly sure Aaron told me that the rules for accessing the slides from the Toll Road, or anywhere but the ski area, were less restrictive.

Snoloco - don't take that stuff personally. It's off season (for many) and it is what it is.  I did all kinds of stuff when I was your age that I would never post.

There are actually a few good threads in here that don't have to do with the original topic. A smart guy than me could figure out how to break this all out.

Need a Tony Crocker type to help run this place.

snoloco wrote

What's the big deal, I find it frustrating to have to skate uphill every run.  Does it really matter to anyone else on this site how I prefer to approach skiing, or what I do when I am not skiing.  The last three threads that I have posted have gone so far off topic and is everyone throwing me under the bus and telling me to get off my ass.

You opened yourself up to with the original question.

As much as this may be difficult for you to fathom, Whiteface is a business.  They aren't there for your personal pleasure.  If they thought they could make money by extending their season, I'm sure they would have tried it.  One poster pointed out the obvious reason why - season pass holders, who've already paid a flat rate, would be the biggest users of an extended season, hence they would be most likely losing money.

If you want to extend your skiing there, there are legitimate options for doing so.  We've yet to get a definitive answer for the legality of it, but barring that, there is no reason you couldn't hike and ski after the lifts had stopped running.

As far as your motivation as to why not to do that - I think no one is buying it.  It seems they see you as a lazy, spoiled kid who just wants everything handed to them.  I'm not saying that is what you are, but you are giving that impression.  Lots of people ski lift served only, there is nothing wrong with that.  But if you really feel the season is lacking in length, find another way to go about skiing rather than suggesting Whiteface change the way they run their business.

i likek  mikek

I'm bummed out that I couldn't get to the Bush for closing weekend today. They seem to have enough snow to easily go another week, but I guess that they're feeling the lack of crowds their as well. With the competition dwindling there is also less incentive for K and Jay to outdo each other by as much. Now Jay will be happy to close next weekend, and K might follow the week after and still retain its title. That would limit my potential days remaining to around 4.

In which case I'll have 69.

ml242 wrote

I'm bummed out that I couldn't get to the Bush for closing weekend today. They seem to have enough snow to easily go another week, but I guess that they're feeling the lack of crowds their as well. With the competition dwindling there is also less incentive for K and Jay to outdo each other by as much. Now Jay will be happy to close next weekend, and K might follow the week after and still retain its title. That would limit my potential days remaining to around 4.

In which case I'll have 69.

Jay seems to be a fixed calendar this year.
From what I saw at Killington on Tuesday (mind you, I hadn't skied there since May 2005), unless stays cool...the coverage on Superstar shouldn't make it to June even if they wanted to.
MSS? Who knows? They talked about closing on May 11, but might do an extra like last season (same weekend as last year - they have ski camp during the week and morning, that's why there is an 11am start).

The weekends haven't been real good for them weather wise. MSS was real quiet yesterday and it's been raining today. Sutton didn't reopen due to the forecast and Mont Comi called it a season with 25 out of 29 runs on Saturday as rain was in the forecast today.

Forecast is better midweek, but might turn again for next weekend. Not ideal to keep 'loses' to a minimum.

freeheeln wrote

i likek  mikek

Seems like a reasonable guy to me.

But I don't think Sno is lazy or spoiled, I think he has a teenagers view that he will never be old or sick or die.
Today kids, particularly those in crowded urban areas are hemmed in by what are safe activities. I had to sound like an old man saying "back in the day" but... as I kid my parents thought nothing of letting my ride my bike several miles from the house and crossing several major highways at the age of 7. Walking to school (skip the broken glass and up hill both ways part) for me was a joy, I would rather walk or ride my bike rather than ride the bus.There were no such things as personal computers or video games.

As an early teen the body adapts quickly to exercise, heals quickly and every thing is easy. But those early years also build a foundation for life later. Habits formed now are hard to change.

So backing down from the self righteous "get off your ass" rants, lets try a different tack. Take your Dad for a hike, learn to love the mountains in the summer. I am sure he would be floored if you came up to him and said, "Dad, lets hike the Catskills 3500", it would be a life changing experience for both of you not to mention a great way to make your ski season even better. Here is a link: http://www.catskill-3500-club.org/catskill-mountains.html

Sno, I think your a great kid, your smart and your do your homework which is much more than I can say about 99.9% of the other kids your age. I just hate to see kids not apply themselves to their fullest ability - physically and mentally.

+1
I think ptex nailed this on the head

Shame on all you adult men who ganged up on this 15 year old kid. Who the hell are you to tell him what to do with his free time? Did he ask for any of your opinions? From what I've read from him it seems like he has a pretty awesome and supportive dad. I’m thinkin his father knows him better than anybody in here and can hand out life advice when necessary.

MikeK wrote

Gore is state owned, so I would interpret that as being legal.  As far as I see, when I go to Gore, I pay to ride the lift.  

Really? Trail maintance and snowmaking don't count?

MikeK wrote

If I happen to come over from Siamese Ponds and make my way down, even during regular season hours, I wouldn't see it as being illegal.

Turns out the law sees it as thieft of services.

MikeK wrote

I guess that would come down to whether they caught you or not.  Only place I recall them checking tickets at Gore is before you get on the lift.

I guess if a person doesn't get caught shop lifting thats not illegal either.

Highpeaksdrifter wrote

MikeK wrote

Gore is state owned, so I would interpret that as being legal.  As far as I see, when I go to Gore, I pay to ride the lift.  

Really? Trail maintance and snowmaking don't count?

MikeK wrote

If I happen to come over from Siamese Ponds and make my way down, even during regular season hours, I wouldn't see it as being illegal.

Turns out the law sees it as thieft of services.

MikeK wrote

I guess that would come down to whether they caught you or not.  Only place I recall them checking tickets at Gore is before you get on the lift.

I guess if a person doesn't get caught shop lifting thats not illegal either.

I'm not going to argue semantics.  People paid to ride ropes and lifts before snowmaking existed.  It's part of the package, but they don't check your ticket going down, only going up.

As far as I'm concerned my taxes go to pay for the maintenance of that land, just like they do for all the other public lands in the park.  One can hike or ski any of the trails surrounding Gore and not have to pay.  You are really going to tell me I'd be arrested or fined for skiing down Gore after hiking in from Siamese Ponds?  I highly doubt it.  If I was doing laps walking up and down the lift line I might see them saying something...

So anyway do you know all this for a fact.  If so I'd really like to know the law.  If you're just blowing smoke then I can get that elsewhere on the internet.

Mike,
Read article 18. Read all of it.

PeeTex wrote

Mike,
Read article 18. Read all of it.

Of the NYS Constitution?

Just so I'm clear this section is titled 'Housing'?

I will read it.  I searched (but admittedly did not read in entirety) the UMP for Gore.  I saw nothing restricting backcountry skiers from Gore's terrain.

MikeK wrote

 
So anyway do you know all this for a fact.  If so I'd really like to know the law.  If you're just blowing smoke then I can get that elsewhere on the internet.

Yo, Mike ---- HPD doesn't blow smoke

When he talks you better listen  ----- just sayin

snoloco wrote

 
If I want to ski, will only do it lift served.  

I'm with you kid

campgottagopee wrote

MikeK wrote

 
So anyway do you know all this for a fact.  If so I'd really like to know the law.  If you're just blowing smoke then I can get that elsewhere on the internet.

Yo, Mike ---- HPD doesn't blow smoke

When he talks you better listen  ----- just sayin

Really.  Seemed pretty smoky to me.

I'm sure he knows of the WF uphill policy:

http://www.adkbcski.com/whiteface-uphill-policy/

$25 for an entire season... hmmmm that's some cheap snowmaking!

I am 99.9% sure it was free before and this was a new policy implemented for 2013-2014.

MikeK wrote

PeeTex wrote

Mike,
Read article 18. Read all of it.

Of the NYS Constitution?

Just so I'm clear this section is titled 'Housing'?

I will read it.  I searched (but admittedly did not read in entirety) the UMP for Gore.  I saw nothing restricting backcountry skiers from Gore's terrain.

Google "NYS article 18 safety in skiing".
There are some of the answers there.

OK I read it.  I don't see anything specific to hiking and skiing or an uphill policy.  But of course, I'm not a lawyer.

I did notice this:

All skiers shall have the following duties: 1. Not to ski in any area not designated for skiing

Which is complete and utter BS.  That maybe can apply for ski areas but there is no such law in the backcountry and NYS DEC will rescue you if you are injured or lost anywhere, be it on skis or not.  In fact NYS encourages you to wear skis or snowshoes in the backcountry, as it is a law in the High Peaks Wilderness when the snow pack is greater than 8" - they will fine you for a rescue without that equipment or possibly fine you or notify the land owners if you are trespassing on private land - they will not charge you or fine you for any other rescue.  There are trails that are marked designated ski trails but those are specifically marked to prohibit snowshoes or snowmobiles, depending on the area, be it Wilderness or Wild Forest.

Things get even shadier as to what is considered out-of-bounds on state owned land, such as WF, Gore, and Belleayre.  As far as I know the responsibilities of the ski patrol to rescue you in event of an injury are lost, but NYS DEC still covers those areas.

I believe the WF uphill policy that was implemented this year is the result of a past injury, a close call or some lawyer concerned over an injury due to ski resort equipment and hiker.  Despite this, the ticket is a modest fee even if they do limit your EYT time to early morning and late afternoon (which IMO is stupid and more dangerous).  There is no literature stating a pass is required outside of the lift season.  There is no explicit statement that uphill hiking or downhill skiing is prohibited.

Gore does not have an uphill policy that I can find.  I've never looked into Belleayre.