Ideas for Ski Area Improvements

Another way to keep my various tangents contained.

My most recent idea was for Hunter's West Side.  The idea is to encourage expert skiers to go there and stay most of the day instead of being on the front side.  Here's how it's done.

Commit to opening everything over there each and every season.  Start with Wayout and Clair's open and then expand to Taylor's Run, Annapurna, and Westway.

Westway is too wide for the 1 row of tower guns it has, and to get full width coverage, you'd need to use more sled guns than Hunter has.  The solution is to completely redo the snowmaking on that trail, installing fan guns down both sides of the trail.  This would allow for full width coverage all the time.  The reason full width coverage is needed will be mentioned later.  Instead of having these huge whales on one side with the air guns, there would be much larger mounds toward the middle of the trail that are much more spread out and skiable.  Leave it ungroomed as much as possible when it first opens and when there's a need to groom, push out the piles for even, full width coverage.

As for grooming, Colonel's Alternate and Wayout get groomed every day, no exceptions.  Clair's Way gets groomed most of the time and so does Upper Taylor's Run.  Lower Taylor's Run and Annapurna get groomed only when there's a freeze thaw, or some other reason that grooming makes them in way better condition.  Westway should be groomed as little as possible.  Instead of grooming, resurface to build up base for spring conditions.  The goal here is to make the Catskill's version of Outer Limits, meaning the steepest, widest, bump run possible.

This also means a new event, being a spring bump contest on Westway.  The trail is wide enough to sent multiple skiers at once down it, so they compete head to head.  There would also be a place to get food and beer at the bottom of the course.  The trail has great sightlines from the bottom and would work perfectly for this.  Imagine 4-5 skiers trying to get down as fast as they can at the same time.  This would be even better than the Ski Bowl Bump Contest that I thought of earlier.  It would start just above where you can see from the bottom and would end just as the trail flattens out.  White lines are the start and finish.  They could bring in a portable tv screen so that spectators at the bottom could see what was going on at the start.

Diagram of the start/finish areas is below.

i often find the way to keep my rants contained is to start another thread.

This isn't a rant.

"white lines are at the start and finish" dang kid, I didn't know you like to party like that!

What about a rotating tram with topless bartenders and mirror topped bar?

I'm talking realistic improvements to the skiing, not the bar.  Believe it or not, I come to a ski area to ski the terrain, not to sit in a lodge and drink (I'm underage anyway, but still).  That being said, I got off the groomers today and skied 5 laps on Annapurna.  My bump skiing skills are way better now.  Can't wait to ski it many more times this season.  It does need to be groomed to get rid of the snowmaking whales, but it was awesome today as an ungroomed bump run.  It holds snow very well and should be great come spring.

High priced 10,000 sq ft homes, luxury fractional vacation ownership, designer shopping (to fill up those homes with expensive crap and bad art), six packs, six packs, gondolas, gondolas, grooming, grooming, grooming. Oh, and valet parking and ski delivery. Ouila!

A new bar where open carry is legal. That way the NYC trash can have an OK-corral style shootout every Saturday night.

Benny Profane wrote

High priced 10,000 sq ft homes, luxury fractional vacation ownership, designer shopping (to fill up those homes with expensive crap and bad art), six packs, six packs, gondolas, gondolas, grooming, grooming, grooming. Oh, and valet parking and ski delivery. Ouila!

Now yer talkin! Groom everything and cover it in that shitty man made snow so terminal intermediates with big egos get to believe they are better than they actually are then they will buy some overpriced slope-side real estate. YA!

Now lets get back to these white lines and topless girls Sno, get yourself a little of that action and I don't think you are going to really care about Hunters improvements any longer. :)

Holy Crap, who is the adult here? Snoloco posts a thoughful, detailed plan to better use Hunter's West side and all of you so called grown ass men sound like the the evil knitting circle with your snarky posts. The facts:

Snoloco, I do believe you have something here. Although I don't enjoy Hunter nearly as much as other local mountains, I have never NOT had fun when I did end up there. I, like you, just like to ride. That being said, now that there is a better lift on the west side, there is the real potential to use this neglected terrain to its fullest potential, and indeed spread out the massive crowds.

The problem is and always was that you won't increase skier visits much by developing that side of the mountain. This is why money went to Hunter One. The real money is in the rental rubes, classes, and beginners. I agree a mini lodge or yurt would keep riders on that side, and the money would help justify investment on that side.

Blowing that much snow on westway is a huge drain on resources, it is just a ton of acreage and you hit the nail on the head, it gets windblown and turns to a sheet of ice faster than any other run.

One could argue that expert skiers spend more money than beginners.  They certainly ski more often, therefore buying more lift tickets and season passes.  They spend more time at the bar at the end of the day which brings in more money.  They're also much more likely to head to the ski shop and buy some high end gear for themselves.  My dad and I have used Hunter's shop for much of our equipment.

More investment on the west side would also mean separation of ability levels.  One of the complaints I hear about Hunter on a regular basis is the amount of NYC gapers that they get.  West side is gaper free, so this issue is mute.

Do you have any idea what snow making pipe costs?  I don't ever recall seeing pipes on both sides of any trail anywhere including Killington.

West side gaper free? I doubt that, but it's been a few years.  Our worst experience at Hunter was on West.  Headed over there sometime after 10am.  I think it was Clair's.  I'm sure they still have the wood slat fences on skier's left.  It was icy, but nothing someone who should be on a "double black" should have any trouble handling.  Of course, gapers don't have a clue where they do and don't belong, and the worst of the gapers pay no mind to trail ratings, being the legends in their own minds that they are.

Well, some gaper falls up slope of my brother.  Unable to control himself or self arrest he slide down into my brother, and into to wood fence.  Fortunately no injury, but my brother's ski went between the slats during the fall, and broke in half.  Ultimate proof of gaper, the ahole didn't even bother to see if my brother was ok.

Gaper free, as if.

My biggest problem with Hunter over the years has never been the skiing.  They have great terrain and the snowmaking is first rate.  It's the $hit show that is (or used to be) unbearable, at least on the weekends.  Big crowds, full of people with no common sense, who think they can and should go wherever they want, putting terminal intermediates or worse on terrain that is over their heads unless the conditions are perfect.  Does the same happen to an extent at other hills?  Sure.  But with proximity to NYC (and Joisey) it brings a disproportionate share of yahoos.

At least I hope most of them have moved on from skiing in jeans to at least skiing in the ski pants that are made to look like jeans!

P.s.  No offense intended to NJ.  Most of the state is beautiful (don't call it the Garden State for nothing), and it has many wonderful residents and skiers.  That said, some of the parts in the tri-state/NYC area suffer from being in the armpit of NYC, people's and all.

Gore's Sunway has pipe on both sides on the widest section from Foxlair down to where the gondola crosses.  They did this by extending the Foxlair line down.  That's a tough section to cover and is often an issue early season.  The extra line is an improvement but still not quite enough. There's often a fan gun or two brought in to help with coverage.

snoloco wrote

One could argue that expert skiers spend more money than beginners.  They certainly ski more often, therefore buying more lift tickets and season passes.  They spend more time at the bar at the end of the day which brings in more money.  They're also much more likely to head to the ski shop and buy some high end gear for themselves.  My dad and I have used Hunter's shop for much of our equipment.

I think you've got this a little backasswards. The more established skiers aren't the ones dumping tons of money on a day at the hill. They spend less time in the lodge without the 2hr lunch stop. Also not likely  buying overpriced garb in the retail shop or using that shop for tuning, rentals etc. They do it themselves

Yes they may spend more money, but not at the hill itself

It could also be said that non-expert skiers outnumber expert skiers.

I guess I'd say that ski areas that actually stock retail gear (skis, boots) are a danger zone of sorts.  They know noobs and gapers with money, who don't own equipment, show up willing to buy as opposed to rent.  Once fitted out like Jean Claude Killy they will go out and 'slay' the "mountain".

Advanced skiers who need an equipment stand in will hit the rental shop and see what performance gear they have available, they ain't buying new on the hill.

Plattekill has an interesting shop, with a lot of ok gear and decent prices for an out of they way gem that doesn't see many gapers. They buck my observation!

I'd assme that the majority of us on here are advanced/expert skiers.  Problem is that most mountains, especially further south, cater to beginners and low intermediates.  Hunter's new operator has shown some consideration for expert skiers by opening Annapurna, even in a bad year.  If it were a better year, they might've tried for 44 as well.  I'm 80% sure that there would be no way in hell either trail would've opened in a year like this under the previous administration.  I'm pretty sure that opening everything on West every year, no exceptions would keep some expert skiers from driving past the cats.  That's a lot of people/$$$.

Annapurna is a great trail, and having it definitely open would increase my chances of moving Hunter up the list when headed up the Thruway for a day trip.  Still won't move Hunter above Plattekill for a Powder Daize or make me forego using my Ski3 at the Belle......but adding Annapurna is a big time improvement.

The photo from Plattekills facebook page of skiing yesterday looked way better than the conditions at Hunter. Like WAY BETTER. I wished I was there.